{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/x34mk65v1m/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Smithline, Catherine Covell"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/082/original/TheBreman_SecondaryMark_Horizontal_Blue_Black.png?1713640889","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2007-07-17 (creation)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["Video"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source"]},"value":{"en":["William Breman Jewish Heritage Museum ","Esther and Herbert Taylor Oral History Collection"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCathee Smithline interviewed by Sandra Berman on July 17, 2007 in New York.\u003c/p\u003e (general)","\u003cp\u003eCatherine Covell (Cathee) Smithline (b. 1947) is the great niece of Leo Frank.  Her grandmother, Marian Frank Otto, was Leo Frank’s sister. Cathee lives in New York with her family.\u003c/p\u003e (bioghist)","\u003cp\u003eCathee Smithline reflects on the impact the Leo Frank case has had on her family. She talks about her grandmother, Leo Frank’s sister, who died when Cathee was one year old.  She talks about her grandfather and recalls that he was very close with Leo in their younger years. She reflects that she knew her grandfather very well, but they had not talked about the case. She tells of the Frank family connection to Atlanta. She talks about her family not wanting to discuss the case and how she first learned of the case through a book her mother had given her when she was 16. Cathee talks about discussing the case with her grown children and their interest in it. She reflects on Leo Frank, the person, and his legacy in the family.\u003c/p\u003e (scope content)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source Metadata URI"]},"value":{"en":["https://archivesspace.thebreman.org/repositories/2/archival_objects/28034"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eAll rights reserved. No part of this publication may be reproduced or transmitted in any form or by any means, electronic or mechanical, recorded by any information storage and retrieval system, without the express written consent of the William Breman Jewish Heritage Museum.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject"]},"value":{"en":["Frank, Leo, 1884-1915 (personal name)","Atlanta (Ga.)  (geographic term)"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCathee Smithline interviewed by Sandra Berman on July 17, 2007 in New York.\u003c/p\u003e","\u003cp\u003eCatherine Covell (Cathee) Smithline (b. 1947) is the great niece of Leo Frank.  Her grandmother, Marian Frank Otto, was Leo Frank’s sister. Cathee lives in New York with her family.\u003c/p\u003e","\u003cp\u003eCathee Smithline reflects on the impact the Leo Frank case has had on her family. She talks about her grandmother, Leo Frank’s sister, who died when Cathee was one year old.  She talks about her grandfather and recalls that he was very close with Leo in their younger years. She reflects that she knew her grandfather very well, but they had not talked about the case. She tells of the Frank family connection to Atlanta. She talks about her family not wanting to discuss the case and how she first learned of the case through a book her mother had given her when she was 16. Cathee talks about discussing the case with her grown children and their interest in it. She reflects on Leo Frank, the person, and his legacy in the family.\u003c/p\u003e"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eAll rights reserved. No part of this publication may be reproduced or transmitted in any form or by any means, electronic or mechanical, recorded by any information storage and retrieval system, without the express written consent of the William Breman Jewish Heritage Museum.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["William Breman Jewish Heritage Museum"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["William Breman Jewish Heritage Museum"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/082/original/TheBreman_SecondaryMark_Horizontal_Blue_Black.png?1713640889","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/098/376/small/Smithline_Cathy.mp4_1602207756.jpg?1602193357","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - Smithline_Cathy.mp4"]},"duration":970.363,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/098/376/small/Smithline_Cathy.mp4_1602207756.jpg?1602193357","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-thebreman.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/098/376/original/Smithline_Cathy.mp4?1602193354","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":970.363,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/transcript/19370","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Cathy Smithline [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/transcript/19370/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BERMAN: Today is July 17. I am here with Cathy Smithline at her home. She has\nagreed to be interviewed for the Esther and Herbert Taylor Oral History Project\nof the William Breman Jewish Heritage Museum. Cathy is the great niece of Leo\nFrank. I'm very grateful that you have agreed to do this interview. I'd like to\nbegin by asking you to tell me a little bit about the family, how you were\nrelated to ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=0.0,30.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/transcript/19370/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"him. A little bit of background.\n\nSMITHLINE: My grandmother is Leo Frank's sister. When all this occurred, my\nmother, who is now 89, wasn't even born. So, it's very far removed. It's been\nmany years, but he's my great uncle.\n\nBERMAN: How did you first hear about what had happened to ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=30.0,60.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/transcript/19370/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"him?\n\nSMITHLINE: When I was about 16, the book, Harry Golden's, A Little Girl is Dead,\ncame out in paperback. I don't know if it was written before that. I don't\nremember, but when it came out in paperback my mother had purchased the book.\nShe handed it to me. She said to me, \"This is about your Uncle Leo,\" or her\nUncle Leo. You know, your great uncle. She told me a little bit about the story.\nShe said, \"You ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=60.0,90.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/transcript/19370/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"might want to read this,\" which I did. That was my first\nencounter. My first experience. When I spoke to my mother later about it, her\nfirst encounter was also when she was a teenager. She had gone with a boyfriend\nto the movies. It was a movie with Lana Turner. I don't remember the name of it.\nDo you remember the name?\n\nBERMAN: Yes, it's . . . I'll think of it.\n\nSMITHLINE: I'll think of it too. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=90.0,120.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/transcript/19370/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"When they came out of the movie, the boyfriend\nsaid to her, \"This is about your Uncle Leo.\" My mother was shocked because she\nhad always thought he had died of pneumonia. That's what she was told. He died\nbefore she was born, so she never questioned it. She went home, and she said to\nher mother . . . her boyfriend's name was actually Leo also . . . said to her,\n\"This ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=120.0,150.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/transcript/19370/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"movie I just saw was about Uncle Leo.\" Her mother said, \"It is about him.\nWe don't talk about it. Never bring it up again.\" And it was never ever\ndiscussed in her family. She really never got any information from her parents\nabout this.\n\nBERMAN: Was she curious? Was it something that really . . .\n\nSMITHLINE: I don't know. I think in those days, you sort of did what your\nparents told you to do, and I don't think you questioned very much. But I do\nthink she spoke to her siblings. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=150.0,180.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/transcript/19370/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"She had an older brother and sister. I think\nshe spoke to them about it at some point. I think she later spoke to her dad\nabout it, but it was never brought up in front of her mother. I think that she\ngot information. She was told it wasn't true. That he really did not commit the\ncrime. Basically, she really never discussed it until relatively recent years.\n\nBERMAN: Were there photographs of him around the home? Did the family try to\nkeep his ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=180.0,210.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/transcript/19370/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"presence alive in some way?\n\nSMITHLINE: She was aware of him. I have . . . we have the family photographs\nwith him in it up to a certain point, so the answer is yes. I think they just\nsaid he died of pneumonia, and he was included in all their thoughts or\nwhatever. Yes.\n\nBERMAN: Did you know your grandmother?\n\nSMITHLINE: No. My mother's mother died when I was a year old. She knew me, but I\ndidn't really know ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=210.0,240.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/transcript/19370/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"her. I don't remember her. My grandfather, who was very close\nwith Leo in their young years, I knew him very well. He died when I was about 16\nor 17. Never was this brought up. I mean, up to that point, I never spoke to him\nabout it. It's really a lot of lost history. I'm sure he knew a lot, and nothing\nwas passed along.\n\nBERMAN: For the purpose of the tape, if you could say his name.\n\nSMITHLINE: His name was Otto Stern.\n\nBERMAN: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=240.0,270.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/transcript/19370/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So you never had the opportunity . . .\n\nSMITHLINE: I never had the opportunity to talk to him. The first time I actually\nspoke to any family member about it was my, I called my Uncle Robbie, who was\nRobert Stern. I called him after I had come from Atlanta. I had done the\noriginal research, and I told him I had found these letters. He said. \"Yes.\" We\ndiscussed it slightly. He didn't really want to talk about it. He says, \"I'm\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=270.0,300.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/transcript/19370/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"very uncomfortable talking about it.\" The whole situation was something we just\nnever discussed in the family. Later in life, maybe ten years after that, he,\nfor whatever reason, had very little trouble talking about it, and he spoke a\nlot about it.\n\nBERMAN: Why do you think the family just kept it kind of quiet?\n\nSMITHLINE: I think the reason is . . . first of all it was a very sensitive\nmatter, but I think a lot of it was embarrassment. I think a ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=300.0,330.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/transcript/19370/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"lot of it, they\nwere ashamed of the whole situation. I know they felt it wasn't true. I mean, I\nnever doubted that for a minute, but I think for whatever reason they just felt\nit was something that they just . . . it was easier not to talk about than to\ntalk about. Sometimes a bad situation or a difficult situation, it's just easier\nto put it in a corner and just forget about it. I think that's what they did.\n\nBERMAN: Do you think it ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=330.0,360.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/transcript/19370/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"had a long term effect on the dynamics of the family?\n\nSMITHLINE: It's hard to say because your family is what your family is, and I\ndon't know if that particular situation made any difference at all. I tend to\nthink it must have [had an effect] on my grandmother because it was her brother.\nIt must have been to my great grandparents. I don't think it affected my mother\nor her family ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=360.0,390.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/transcript/19370/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"or her outlook on life because, I think, she wasn't around when it\noccurred. She only knew her parents from a certain point. I don't think that it\nprobably did.\n\nBERMAN: To get back a little bit to the history of the family, do you know how\nyour grandparents ended up, before they lived in Brooklyn, how they ended up in\nCuero, Texas, where Leo was born?\n\nSMITHLINE: I'm not sure anybody really knows the answer to this. I know my\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=390.0,420.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/transcript/19370/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"grandmother was born in America. My grandfather was born in Germany. He was a\nphysician in Germany. He came over to America, but he did something with real\nestate, from what I can gather. I think my grandmother was actually born in\nBrooklyn. Somewhere along the line, I think her parents or her mother's family,\nwhoever was here already, was from the Atlanta ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=420.0,450.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/transcript/19370/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"area or Atlanta itself. Somehow\nthey migrated down there. Then they went to Texas for a while. I'm really not\nsure how they got there . . . I take this all back. I think Leo was born in\nTexas, but I think my grandmother was actually born in New York. Somehow in\nthose few years they somehow got up to the New York ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=450.0,480.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/transcript/19370/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"area.\n\nBERMAN: And Moses Frank. How did he play into this?\n\nSMITHLINE: He was my grandfather's brother. He and his wife never had any\nchildren. He was very close with my grandmother and my Uncle Leo. I just think\nthe families were close.\n\nBERMAN: Because he was in Atlanta.\n\nSMITHLINE: I also think he was from the New York area, because they are all\nburied up in New ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=480.0,510.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/transcript/19370/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"York. I think he was also from the New York area. Either he had\nfamily down there or his wife had family down there, or whatever brought them to\nthat area. I actually think the family was originally from Atlanta. I think they\nmoved around after that, but I'm not sure.\n\nBERMAN: You already mentioned you were 16 years old when . . .\n\nSMITHLINE: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=510.0,540.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/transcript/19370/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yes.\n\nBERMAN: Did you talk about it with your siblings then? Was it something that you\nwere . . .\n\nSMITHLINE: Right. My sister is older than I am. I think we . . . my sister has\nnever been that particularly interested in the subject at all for whatever\nreason. My brother is a lot younger than I am, so I don't even think he would\nhave understood at the time what that was all about. I don't know if he was told\nat that time. I don't know the answer to that. He certainly knows about it now.\nI don't know exactly when that ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=540.0,570.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/transcript/19370/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"transpired. The answer is, we've mentioned it\nback and forth, but we don't really sit and discuss it.\n\nBERMAN: With your own children, have any of them shown an interest?\n\nSMITHLINE: All of my kids are relatively interested in the subject. Probably my\noldest, my daughter, is the most interested.\n\nBERMAN: Are you amazed yourself about . . . I mean, this one particular case\njust doesn't seem to go away . . . the interest?\n\nSMITHLINE: It surprises my husband way more than me. It just seems ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=570.0,600.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/transcript/19370/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to keep\npopping up over the years. Since people are aware that Leo Frank had other\nfamily, it just it doesn't go away. It keeps popping up.\n\nBERMAN: Why do you think there is this interest? What is your feeling about it?\n\nSMITHLINE: That's a good question. I'm not really sure. I guess the fact that .\n. . it's like this big case that . . . it was the first time a black man's ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=600.0,630.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/transcript/19370/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"word\nwas taken over a Jew, a northern Jew. I don't really know. When you think about\nit, I don't understand what the big deal is. It's unfortunate it happened. It\nhappened to happen to my family. We think about it. I feel like it's unreal. It\ndoesn't seem possible, but it obviously did happen and it obviously is real. I\ndon't know. I don't understand all the excitement over this.\n\nBERMAN: How do ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=630.0,660.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/transcript/19370/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"you feel about the South?\n\nSMITHLINE: I'm not a big fan of the South. I've been to Atlanta a couple of\ntimes. Everybody's always been nice to me, but I've always had this feeling in\nthe pit of my stomach that I shouldn't be there. I don't belong there. I'm\ndefinitely a northerner.\n\nBERMAN: How do you feel about this exhibition? Are you happy about it that we're\ngoing to be . . .\n\nSMITHLINE: I'm looking forward to seeing it because I'm sure you have more\ninformation and things that I haven't ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=660.0,690.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/transcript/19370/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"seen, which is interesting to me. But I'm\nneutral. I don't care a lot if you do it or not. It's another thing. It's of\ninterest. I can live without it.\n\nBERMAN: You gave a large number of items, letters and photographs, family\nmemorabilia to the Breman. Was that a difficult decision?\n\nSMITHLINE: I've had these things for a ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=690.0,720.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/transcript/19370/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"while, previous to having given it to\nyou. I always felt it should be somewhere. I felt if it stayed with me, it would\ndeteriorate. No one would know who it was in another fifty or a hundred years.\nSo I always felt it belonged somewhere. When you got in touch with me, it just\nfelt like the right place for it to be.\n\nBERMAN: Well, I'm very glad.\n\nSMITHLINE: For whatever reason. Maybe it was that you're the only one who ever asked.\n\nBERMAN: Well it's gotten a good home. Trust ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=720.0,750.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/transcript/19370/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"me.\n\nSMITHLINE: There you go.\n\nBERMAN: It's gotten a good home. Your uncle, we interviewed him.\n\nSMITHLINE: Yes.\n\nBERMAN: We were very fortunate to interview him before he fell ill. He mentioned\nthat he thought Lucille [Frank] was pregnant at one point. Did you ever hear\nthat story?\n\nSMITHLINE: I did hear that story. I don't think she was pregnant. I think my\ngrandmother was pregnant, and then she miscarried during this time. I'm quite\nsure that's the right ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=750.0,780.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/transcript/19370/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"story.\n\nBERMAN: That your . . . that's Leo's sister?\n\nSMITHLINE: Marian was pregnant, and I think she miscarried during this period of\ntime. I don't think Lucille was pregnant.\n\nBERMAN: So she did not miscarry during this time period.\n\nSMITHLINE: I never heard that. I remember seeing that on the film. I was\nsurprised because I don't think that's true.\n\nBERMAN: So he may have misinterpreted who was . . . who miscarried.\n\nSMITHLINE: Yes. I'm quite sure my mother told me my grandmother miscarried\nduring that time.\n\nBERMAN: I know that that's true, because Leo wrote to her. In one of the ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=780.0,810.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/transcript/19370/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"letters\nyou gave to the museum, Leo wrote to your sister. I mean, to his sister that he\nwas upset that that had happened.\n\nSMITHLINE: Right. Maybe that's how I know it, from the letter. I think I asked\nmy mother, and she confirmed it.\n\nBERMAN: Did your family keep in touch with the Selig family at all?\n\nSMITHLINE: I know Lucille used to visit my family, my grandparents, regularly.\nShe used to come up and ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=810.0,840.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/transcript/19370/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"stay an extended period of time. I know my mother knew\nher very well. I don't know when that stopped. I don't know if it stopped when\nmy grandmother died or it stopped . . . it must have stopped later than that. My\nmother actually said I had met her, but I didn't remember. I must have been very young.\n\nBERMAN: That's interesting, because I think the Selig family today, doesn't\nreally even have a connection. The ones that are in Atlanta today don't have\nthat much of a connection to who she ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=840.0,870.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/transcript/19370/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"was, and they were related.\n\nSMITHLINE: Right.\n\nBERMAN: You know, closely related in the earlier years. There's not that much of\na connection.\n\nSMITHLINE: Right.\n\nBERMAN: Is there anything else that you would like to say regarding the case?\nAnything that has been on your mind? Something that I've forgotten in all of\nthese questions?\n\nSMITHLINE: I can't think of anything. No. I can't think of anything right off\nthe top of my head. Of course as soon as you turn that off, I'll remember.\n\nBERMAN: Well, we can turn it back ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=870.0,900.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/transcript/19370/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"on. That's great. I really, really appreciate it.\n\nSMITHLINE: You are very welcome. Thank you.\n\nBERMAN: Finally, Cathy, we would like to know how you would like people to\nremember Leo Frank and how you would like to see him portrayed and the legacy of\nLeo Frank. If you could give us your thoughts on that.\n\nSMITHLINE: It's hard to put it ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=900.0,930.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/transcript/19370/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"into words. I would like to think that people\nwould think that Leo Frank was the same type of person that was pretty much\nanybody else. There was nothing extraordinarily special about him. He was a good\nperson. He was trying to lead his life in the best way he knew how. I think he\njust caught up in a series of unfortunate events. I think people have to put it\nin perspective and realize that ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=930.0,960.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/transcript/19370/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"this could really happen to anyone. It just\nhappened to happen to Leo Frank, and it happened to happen to my family.\n\nBERMAN: Thank you, Cathy.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=960.0,990.0"}]},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/annotation_set/189","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Annotations [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/annotation_set/189/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eLeo Frank (1884-1915) was a Jewish factory superintendent in Atlanta, Georgia.  In 1913, he was accused of raping and murdering one of his employees, a 13-year-old girl named Mary Phagan, whose body was found on the premises of the National Pencil Company in Atlanta, Georgia. The trial was the catalyst for a great outburst of antisemitism led by the populist Tom Watson and the center of powerful class and political interests. Frank was sent to Milledgeville State Penitentiary to await his execution.  Governor John M. Slaton, believing there had been a miscarriage of justice, commuted Frank’s sentence to life in prison. This enraged a group of men who styled themselves the “Knights of Mary Phagan.” They drove to the prison, kidnapped Frank from his cell and drove him to Marietta, Georgia where they lynched him. Many years later, the murderer was revealed to be Jim Conley, who had lied in the trial, pinning it on Frank instead. Frank was pardoned on March 11, 1986, although they stopped short of exonerating him.\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=0.0,30.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/annotation_set/189/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eMarian Frank Otto (1886-1948).\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=30.0,60.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/annotation_set/189/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eHarry Golden, author of \u003cem\u003eA Little Girl is Dead\u003c/em\u003e, published in 1965.\u003c/p\u003e\n\u003cp\u003e \u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=60.0,90.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/annotation_set/189/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eLana Turner starred in the 1937 film, \u003cem\u003eThey Won't Forget\u003c/em\u003e, based on the Ward Greene novel, \u003cem\u003eDeath in the Deep South\u003c/em\u003e.  Turner plays a southern schoolgirl named Mary Clay who is murdered on campus. Ward Greene based his novel on the Leo Frank case. The incident sparked numerous books and movies.\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=90.0,120.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/annotation_set/189/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eMoses Frank (1841-1927) owned a substantial percentage of Atlanta Pencil Company stock.\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=480.0,510.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/annotation_set/189/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eLucille Selig Frank (1888-1957) was Leo Frank’s wife.\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=750.0,780.0"}]},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/index/47261","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Cathy Smithline [Index]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/index/47261/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Relation to Leo Frank","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=34.0,315.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/index/47261/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"My grandmother is Leo Frank's sister.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=34.0,315.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/index/47261/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"brother","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"great-niece","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"great-uncle","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Leo Frank","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Marian Frank","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"sister","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=34.0,315.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/index/47261/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Family secrecy ","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=315.0,481.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/index/47261/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Why do you think the family just kept it kind of quiet?","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=315.0,481.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/index/47261/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Embarassment","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Family","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Frank family","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Secrecy","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=315.0,481.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/index/47261/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Moses Frank","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=481.0,660.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/index/47261/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And Moses Frank. How did he play into this?","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=481.0,660.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/index/47261/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Atlanta","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Atlanta Pencil Company","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Great-uncle","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Moses Frank","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"New York","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=481.0,660.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/index/47261/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Opinion of the South","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=660.0,758.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/index/47261/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"How do you feel about the South?","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=660.0,758.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/index/47261/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Atlanta","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Belonging","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Northerner","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"South","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=660.0,758.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/index/47261/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Frank","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=758.0,908.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/index/47261/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He mentioned that he thought Lucille [Frank]  was pregnant at one point.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=758.0,908.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/index/47261/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Frank","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Lucille Selig","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Miscarriage","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Pregnancy","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Selig","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Widow","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Wife","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=758.0,908.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/index/47261/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Legacy of Leo Frank","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=908.0,970.363"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/index/47261/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Finally, Cathy, we would like to know how you would like people to remember Leo Frank and how you would like to see him portrayed and the legacy of Leo Frank.  If you could give us your thoughts on that.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=908.0,970.363"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376/index/47261/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Happenstance","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Legacy","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Leo Frank","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Perspective","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/30388/file/98376#t=908.0,970.363"}]}]}]}