{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/bc3st7fd9d/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Bunnen, Lucinda Weil"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/082/original/TheBreman_SecondaryMark_Horizontal_Blue_Black.png?1713640889","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["1988-02-09 (creation)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["Audio"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eLucinda Weil Bunnen participated in a group interview with the National Council of Jewish Women on February 9, 1988 in Atlanta, Georgia. Lucinda had a follow up one-on-one interview with Merna Alpert in December 1988 in Atlanta.\u003c/p\u003e (general)","\u003cp\u003eLucinda was interviewed twice by the National Council of Jewish Women: first in a group interview, and then in a one-on-one follow up interview. In the group interview Lucinda talks most about her mother, her life as a photographer, her relationship to her Jewish identity, and her relationship to her family. In the follow up interview she helps clarify some points, as well as elaborating on her father’s life, her relationship with her sister, and her work in philanthropy.\u003c/p\u003e (scope content)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source Metadata URI"]},"value":{"en":["https://archivesspace.thebreman.org/repositories/2/archival_objects/28445"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eAll rights reserved. No part of this publication may be reproduced or transmitted in any form or by any means, electronic or mechanical, recorded by any information storage and retrieval system, without the express written consent of the William Breman Jewish Heritage Museum.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Subject"]},"value":{"en":["Lucinda Weil Bunnen (personal name)","Sylvan Weil (personal name)","Frank Weil (personal name)","Phoebe Weil Franklin Lundeen (personal name)","Robert Bunnen (personal name)","Aaron (Nusbaum) Norman (personal name)","DeJongh \"Dee\" Franklin (personal name)","John Lundeen (personal name)","Deenie Sanderson Weil (personal name)","Rabbi Jacob Rothschild (personal name)","Atlanta School of Art (corporate name)","High Museum of Art (corporate name)","Chastain Arts Center and Gallery (corporate name)","Parsons School of Design (corporate name)","Georgia Artists Show (corporate name)","Harvard University (corporate name)","Princeton University (corporate name)","Columbia Museum of Art (corporate name)","Saks Fifth Avenue (corporate name)","The Temple (corporate name)","Temple Emanu-El (corporate name)","United Jewish Appeal (UJA) (corporate name)","American Jewish Committee (AJC) (corporate name)","The Norman Foundation (corporate name)","Fund for Southern Communities (corporate name)","Men Stopping Violence (corporate name)","Black Women's Health Imperative (National Black Women's Health Project) (corporate name)","Managing Inherited Wealth (corporate name)","Friends of Photography (corporate name)","Katonah, New York (geographic term)","New York City, New York (geographic term)","New York State (geographic term)","Atlanta, Georgia (geographic term)","Savannah, Georgia (geographic term)","Washington, D.C. (geographic term)","New York Stock Exchange (topical term)","Stock Market Crash of 1929 (topical term)","The Great Depression (topical term)","World War II (topical term)","Holocaust Survivors (topical term)","Anti-Semitism (topical term)","Judaism (topical term)","Jewish Holidays (topical term)","Inherited Wealth (topical term)","Volunteering (topical term)","Social Justice Issues (topical term)","Photography (topical term)"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eLucinda Weil Bunnen participated in a group interview with the National Council of Jewish Women on February 9, 1988 in Atlanta, Georgia. Lucinda had a follow up one-on-one interview with Merna Alpert in December 1988 in Atlanta.\u003c/p\u003e","\u003cp\u003eLucinda was interviewed twice by the National Council of Jewish Women: first in a group interview, and then in a one-on-one follow up interview. In the group interview Lucinda talks most about her mother, her life as a photographer, her relationship to her Jewish identity, and her relationship to her family. In the follow up interview she helps clarify some points, as well as elaborating on her father’s life, her relationship with her sister, and her work in philanthropy.\u003c/p\u003e"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eAll rights reserved. No part of this publication may be reproduced or transmitted in any form or by any means, electronic or mechanical, recorded by any information storage and retrieval system, without the express written consent of the William Breman Jewish Heritage Museum.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["William Breman Jewish Heritage Museum"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["William Breman Jewish Heritage Museum"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/082/original/TheBreman_SecondaryMark_Horizontal_Blue_Black.png?1713640889","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/111/120/small/Lucinda_Bunnen.jpeg?1619288485","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - Bunnen_Lucinda.mp3"]},"duration":10332.70857,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/111/120/small/Lucinda_Bunnen.jpeg?1619288485","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-thebreman.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/111/120/original/Bunnen_Lucinda.mp3?1617622418","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mp3","duration":10332.70857,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Bunnen, Lucinda [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MODERATOR: This is the group interview of Lucinda Bunnen. Today is February\nNinth, 1988. This is the American Jewish Committee, National Council of Jewish\nWomen Oral History Project doing a group interview of Lucinda Bunnen in her\nhome. We're delighted to be in your home tonight, and would like you to start\nour process off by telling us about yourself.\n\nBUNNEN: Just like that?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=0.0,30.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MODERATOR: Yes! Just like that.\n\nBUNNEN: From where?\n\nMODERATOR: From wherever you'd like to begin, because we will ask specific\nquestions later on.\n\nBUNNEN: Well, I think I've always been a misfit. I never have quite fit in to\nany category, partly because of where I grew up and how I grew up, I think,\nwhich was on a farm in Katonah, New York. I milked cows, and pitched hay, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=30.0,60.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and\nrode horses, and really liked living on a farm. I liked gathering eggs and the\nwhole farm life. Our next-door neighbor was a granddaughter of John Jay, the\nfirst Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, and she persuaded the school to accept\nus at the private school in Katonah. Well, in ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=60.0,90.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Bedford [New York]. It wasn't in\nKatonah. We were the first Jews to ever go to the school, and they were very\nskeptical about taking us. I think my parents were probably the first Jews who\never lived in that community, and a lot of people were skeptical, because the\nonly Jews they knew were the Jew that ran the grocery store, or something, in\nNew York . . ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=90.0,120.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":". We were accepted, but not really, because we didn't belong to the\ncountry club, and of course, growing up in a very small community, a lot of the\nkids' activities were at the country club. I think I enjoyed being on the farm\nanyway, so I wasn't very social. My sister, on the other hand, was always\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=120.0,150.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"sitting on the chaise longue reading movie magazines, whishing that we lived in\nNew York City and not on the farm, and where she could have much more of a\nsocial life, so we were very different that way. Then, when I came to Atlanta I\nfelt very out of place because I didn't care about dressing up . . . Anyway, [my\nsister] Phoebe was already well-established ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=150.0,180.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"here, and wanted me to be more\nsocial. I finally found my niche in the horse world and started riding, and\nraising kids. Then Helen Mantler and Carolyn Fisher accosted me at a bar mitzvah\nor something at the temple and said that there was this course at [what was then\nthe Atlanta] School of ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=180.0,210.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Art, and would I be interested in taking it with them. It\nwas an intermediate course, and I said, \"Well, I'd love to, but I've never had\nphotography before. How can I go into an intermediate course?\" And they said,\n\"No problem, we'll help you.\" So, I said \"Okay.\" I missed the first class\nbecause we were going on a family vacation, but I took my first roll of film\nwhile I was on the beach in Pensacola [Florida] and came ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=210.0,240.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"back and had this\nwonderful image on my first roll of film. Lots of accolades and encouragement.\nThen the next assignment, Carolyn, and Helen, and I went out to shoot on the\nstreets. The assignment was windows, and I went and did one thing, and everybody\nelse sort of did the same thing. I came to class, and I was out of step, as\nusual. Everybody else had done sort ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=240.0,270.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"of what people normally do when they do a\nsequence of windows, and I had just stayed in one place and taken pictures of\npeople walking by and the reflections on the window, people going in and out of\nthis one store on 10th street [in midtown Atlanta]. I felt terrible about it,\nbecause I thought I'd done the wrong thing! My teacher was very excited about it\nand said that it was good. It was very difficult to print, so I ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=270.0,300.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"learned a lot\nabout printing during that particular assignment. I just got more and more\nexcited about doing photography. I was going skiing with Harry Berkowitz. Does\nanybody remember Harry Berkowitz? Harry and Mimi? We decided to go skiing, they\ngot a babysitter, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=300.0,330.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and my teacher encouraged me to get a 4x5 camera. He said I\nhad a good eye, but I was too fast, was not taking my time enough, and if I got\na bigger camera, I might take my time. The snow disappeared before we ever got\nto ski, so I said, \"Well, good. I'll take pictures.\" They drove me around the\nmountains of North Carolina and I took pictures. Harry seemed to like what I was\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=330.0,360.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"taking, so he offered me a show at Saks [Fifth Avenue]. I had started that first\nclass in the summer of 1970, it was a six-week course, and then I started in\nSeptember as a regular student--well, not a regular student, but in the regular\nclasses--and ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=360.0,390.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"this was in February of 1971. Actually, it was March, I'd been\ndoing photography since July, and Harry offered me this show. I asked my teacher\nwhat I should do about it, and he said, \"Do it! You're the one that it was\noffered to.\" And I said, \"But my goodness, how about all these people who've\nbeen doing photography ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=390.0,420.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"in Atlanta for years and have never had a show?\" He said,\n\"Doesn't matter, you're the one that it was offered to. Do it.\" So I did it, and\nI hung 99 pictures. I was my own editor, and that is always a mistake. But Edith\nHills Kugler wrote and article, and a lot of people came and saw the show. In\nfact, for years and years and ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=420.0,450.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"years, everybody would stop me on the street and\nsay, \"Oh, I read that article about you in the paper about your show at Saks!\"\nBy then I had had lots of shows, and I thought, why don't they go see the newer\nstuff? I'm embarrassed by that stuff already. But Gudmund Vigtel, who is the\ndirector of the [High] Museum [of Art], came to see the show at Saks, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=450.0,480.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and he\ninvited me to be in the Georgia Artists Show. As a result of being in the\nGeorgia Artists Show, Richard Hill, who was teaching at the Atlanta School of\nArt, asked me if I would like to have a show at his gallery, and so I had the\nfirst one-person show of photographs in Atlanta, in a gallery. As a result of\nthat . . .\n\nMODERATOR: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=480.0,510.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"On and on.\n\nBUNNEN: On and on and on.\n\nMODERATOR: Well, we've left a few holes, so I'm going to give everyone an\nopportunity to ask some questions.\n\nUNKNOWN: Lucinda, according to the article, your mother held a Ph.D. in chemistry.\n\nBUNNEN: Correct.\n\nUNKNOWN: Which I imagine in that time was very unusual for a woman. It's an\nunusual field for women. Can you tell us a little bit about your mother and how\nyou think she influenced ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=510.0,540.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"you?\n\nBUNNEN: She was a very interesting woman. She didn't go to school until she was\n12, because she traveled with her family in Europe. She had tutors, and they\nthought she was being properly educated, but when she was 12, they decided it\nwas probably time for her to get a proper education, so they took her to some\nschools in New York to be interviewed. One of the questions they asked ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=540.0,570.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"was,\n\"What's five times five?\" And quick as a wink, she said \"55,\" and quick as a\nwink they knew she didn't fit. She went to a one-room school. When she was 15 a\nlot of her friends were taking college boards, so she took college boards\nbecause she thought it would be fun. She didn't know very much about this\ncountry because she'd spent most of her life traveling and spoke five ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=570.0,600.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"languages\nfluently. The only college she could remember the name of was Smith, so she put\nSmith on her application, and she got her room assignment in the middle of\nsummer. She told her father she was going to college and he said, \"No. No,\nyou're not. That's ridiculous.\" So, she promised that she would take liberal\narts. She studied music, and poetry, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=600.0,630.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and the things that ladies were supposed to\nstudy, and she graduated when she was 20. She did all kinds of incredible things\nin New York, but I suppose that's irrelevant. When she was 25 my father was 35\nand his mother died. Or, his father died, and ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=630.0,660.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"so to go in mourning, he was\nadvised to take out a proper girl. So, he took out my mother. He was very\nhandsome, great personality. They got married and moved to the country, and she\nvery quickly got bored with growing and arranging flowers, and bridge, and\nskeet. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=660.0,690.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"She hoodwinked my father into thinking she liked to ride, but she didn't.\nThey went to Europe in 1936, when I was six, and they brought home a pair of\nLakeland terriers, which was the first pair of that breed ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=690.0,720.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"in this country. She\ndecided she was going to breed dogs. Somebody suggested she take a course at P\u0026S\n[Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons] in New York, which was\na very good course in breeding. She signed up--she got the wrong course, or the\nnumbers changed, or something--and she got into a course of chemistry, and she\nthought, well, maybe I ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=720.0,750.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"should be a doctor. So, she went to Columbia and to\nfirst-year math courses, and some sort of the pre-med courses, and applied to\nmedical school. By this time, she was 40 and had three ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=750.0,780.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"children. She couldn't\nget into medical school. The war [World War II] was on and she was a woman, and\nhow many years did she have left to practice, and what a waste of a space. She\ndidn't get into medical school, so she decided to go on and get a Ph.D. in\norganic chemistry. She found a professor that she liked ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=780.0,810.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"[and] essentially that's\nhow it happened. I was ten when she started, and I graduated from high school\nthe same year she got her Ph.D. It took her eight years. She was commuting to\nNew York, and she had babysitters for my father - women whose husbands were off\nat war who were alone, took turns having dinner with him ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=810.0,840.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"every night. So, there\nwas his Monday night date, his Tuesday night date, and all these women, they did\ndifferent things with him. Some of them played cards with him, some of them read\nwith him, and some of them told stories. He had all these women while she went\nto school. Then she built a research laboratory which was quite unique in the\nworld. Her professor was the director of research and there ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=840.0,870.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"were seven Ph.D.\nresearchers. Then my father died of cancer. We ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=870.0,900.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"thought that our mother would be\nfine. She had all these things that she did, and she was very resourceful and\nindependent. But as it turned out, he was really her lifeline to the world. She\nwasn't very social, but he was, and he demanded dinner parties and people over,\nand sometimes she'd even ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=900.0,930.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"forget. We'd sit down to dinner and the butler would\nstart passing dinner, and all of a sudden, we'd see lights coming up the\ndriveway and my mother would say \"Gasp!\" The butler would whip everything off,\nwe'd go sit down in the study, start having drinks. I mean, she did what she was\nsupposed to do, but she didn't do it with any great relish.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=930.0,960.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN: So, she didn't cope well after your father died?\n\nBUNNEN: She didn't cope well at all. They tried to sell the lab to a chemical\ncompany, like Merck, one of the big chemical companies, to use it exactly the\nway it was being used. The town had a fit, because the minute they heard a big\nchemical company's name, they saw big smokestacks and were ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=960.0,990.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"worried that it was\ngoing to be turned into something commercial. The house ultimately became a\nschool, and the lab became the lab for the school . . . My father was a\ncabinetmaker. He did that table, and that table, and some beds in the back and a\nlot of other little, small pieces, and I just have a third of what he made . . .\nMy mother's first ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=990.0,1020.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"lab was in the basement, the workshop next to it. Then they\nbuilt a small building and he had a workshop on one side and she had a lab . . .\nand he was an outdoorsman . . . ultimately, we had a farm. We had a herd of\npure-bred Guernsey [cattle] and a lot of land to take care of, and she took care\nof the house. We had five servants, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=1020.0,1050.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"so she didn't have anything that she had to\ndo, but she had to take care of it, and she was very resourceful. I mean, she\ncould wire a lamp or fix a toilet, or . . .\n\nUNKNOWN: [Unintelligible: possibly about bathroom doors]\n\nBUNNEN: Sure, she could have done that. A few years after my father ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=1050.0,1080.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"died, and\ntwo years after I got married, she got married. She married a man 13 years\nyounger who had his doctorate in English literature and was writing books, and\nthey traveled a lot. She had a stroke, a very severe stroke, during one of the\ntrips to England. They said she would be a vegetable, but she defied all . . .\nshe was in ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=1080.0,1110.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"bed for a year, then she was in a wheelchair for a year . . . she\nnever walked, she ran, and she was very . . . Oh! I forgot one major part\n[about] this incredible woman. When she was working on her thesis for her\nMaster's degree, she had coronary thrombosis, a very, very severe coronary. She\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=1110.0,1140.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"was in intensive care for quite some time, and when she finally could get up and\nstart walking up and down stairs, she decided that she was not going to live her\nlife as an invalid. She was going to live her life the way she wanted to, and if\nit was a day, or a year, or whatever, it was going to be how she wanted to live\nit. So, she started off in high gear again. Because of her coronary ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=1140.0,1170.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"thrombosis,\nit confused the doctors when she was having some problems, which is why she had\nthe stroke. I think if they hadn't been so concerned about the heart, they might\nhave seen some other things. But the man she married was a writer, and . . . ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=1170.0,1200.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"do\nyou want to know all the gory details? He was gay, besides! So, he had a few\nboyfriends on the side, but he was very interesting, and had an enormous number\nof interesting friends. She had a fine time during the years before she had the\nstroke, and he took care of ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=1200.0,1230.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"her. He'd hire the nurses, and she's fire them. She\ngot to the point where she could travel, and she got to the point where she\ncould write. She was completely paralyzed on her right side, but she got so she\ncould write with her left hand, and needlepoint. One of my favorites is right\nbehind you. She did them all freehand. She figured out how to put it ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=1230.0,1260.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"on a loom.\nShe went to the NYU [New York University] Bellevue Rehabilitation Center and\ntaught them a thing or two. She tried knitting, and she tried painting, and she\ntried various things before she came up with the needlepoint, and she was very\ncreative. She left one unfinished when she died, and I tried to finish it. There\nwas just absolutely no way, because she had to go up and down and up and in. As\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=1260.0,1290.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"you can see, it was all higgledy-piggledy, but it worked. It was amazing. She\ngot so that she could write, but she'd have to draw . . . she'd say . . . she\nwould want to write \"Dear . . . somebody,\" she would draw it in the air. She\nstarted with a children's dictionary and learned words, \"apple,\" just like a\nchild. She worked very hard, and ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=1290.0,1320.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"would reach a plateau and get frustrated, and\nthen she'd make a little more progress. She was a very, very determined woman.\nShe wanted to rewrite her will at one point, but it wouldn't be valid if it was\nin contemplation of death. She had to live five years after ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=1320.0,1350.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the will was\nwritten, and she was determined she was going to live five years after that\nwill, after she could write, and was declared competent, and all the rest of it,\nand she did.\n\nUNKNOWN: I'm curious. I mean, your mom sounds fabulous. I'm curious to know how\nyour own creativity showed itself before [Unintelligible]\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=1350.0,1380.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BUNNEN: I know that I wanted to take pictures. I went to Europe when I was 20,\nand I had a camera that got stolen. I was just . . . it was devastating to me.\nBut I also wrote about what I saw visually, and I wanted to share it with other\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=1380.0,1410.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"people. Interestingly enough, I did a project going across the country\nphotographing ornamentation on graves in the Southeast and Southwest in 1980. I\ndid it with a friend and Daisy. Daisy was just a puppy when we started. I kept a\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=1410.0,1440.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"diary. My friend kept a visual diary of polaroid pictures. We've been trying to\nfigure out how to get it published, because it's very, very interesting\nmaterial, and there's just so much of it. We've taken it to publishers, and they\nsay we need to have more of a direction. She's now transcribing my diary. She's\na writer. She writes for the [Atlanta] ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=1440.0,1470.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Journal-Constitution. It's interesting,\nbecause I'm much more visual. I'm much more of a photographer than she is,\nalthough she's a photographer, but she is a professional writer, and it's\ninteresting that that has come into play at this point.\n\nUNKNOWN: Your mother obviously loved being a student, and almost ivory tower at\ntimes, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=1470.0,1500.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"from what you say about her forgetting her dinner parties and so forth.\nYou left out in the bio that I read anything about your own educational\nbackground and what your interests were at that age.\n\nBUNNEN: On purpose. It was very bad. I was not much of a student, and I think\nshe wanted students, you know? Here she was, this great student. My brother was\na ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=1500.0,1530.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"very bad student, and my sister was a very bad student. Phoebe had the\npotential to be a good student. She never actually went to college, because she\ngot married when she was 19. My brother really didn't come into his own until he\nwas well into Harvard. Actually, he went to Exeter. He was a very bad student,\nand got better and better. His kids . . . he's got two daughter ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=1530.0,1560.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that graduated\nwith highest honors from Harvard, but two sons that haven't done as well. But\nthey seem to be coming into their own later. My mother started when she was 40.\nI started photography when I was 40. No, I was a bad student, but part of it, I\nthink, has to do with [the fact that] we were raised by governesses, and I ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=1560.0,1590.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"don't\nthink that we had the mother-love that I think is very important. There was the\npushing, but not the loving, and I think sometimes it just takes a long time to\nbloom. Especially under such a person that everybody says is ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=1590.0,1620.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"so smart.\n\nUNKNOWN: How much like your mother are you?\n\nBUNNEN: Oh, in a lot of ways I'm a lot like her, as a matter of fact. But it's\ntaken me a long time to realize that. I know my strengths now, and I think I'm\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=1620.0,1650.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"right. I've got a very good visual sense of arranging things. I just helped a\nfriend do a new house, and I wasn't going to let her do anything her way,\nbecause I knew I was right. I mean, people would say, \"How do you know?\" Well,\nMommy says, and if Mommy says it's right, it's ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=1650.0,1680.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"right. But I [also] finish what I\nstart, I really see things through, and I'm very determined, and I think I work\nhard. People used to say about my mother, \"She didn't need to do it for the\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=1680.0,1710.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"money, why is she having to work so hard?\" You have to work hard to get somewhere.\n\nUNKNOWN: One of the things that fascinated me about your article was that you\nsaid you've always liked to take risks in your art, and in your life, and things\nthat you believe in. I think that kind of goes along with what you just said.\nI'm real interested in what some of those risks were.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=1710.0,1740.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BUNNEN: Well, I separated from my husband and said, \"This is what I want to do.\nI want to go off and do some things.\" I wanted to be the kind of mother that my\nmother ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=1740.0,1770.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"wasn't, I don't know . . . I always felt as if I was in jail, and that I\ncouldn't get out and do the things that I wanted to do. Somehow in the confines\nof Atlanta, or Atlanta society, or just . . . I needed space. I wanted to go out\nand see the world. So, that trip across the ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=1770.0,1800.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"country, I bought a Volkswagen\ncamper--smaller than the guest bathroom, as my sister said--and spent five and a\nhalf month in it with another photographer and Daisy. We left in January and\ncame back in April. End of April, I think. Drove 26,000 miles. I ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=1800.0,1830.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"know people\nthink I'm mad. You, know, I live in a 9,000 square foot house and I go off in a\nVolkswagen camper for five and a half months?! Got to be a screwball! [I took]\nthree trips like that. Went to Alaska, drove to Alaska and back, and to Nova Scotia.\n\nUNKNOWN: What did you prove by having done that?\n\nBUNNEN: I wasn't trying to prove anything.\n\nUNKNOWN: To ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=1830.0,1860.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"yourself.\n\nBUNNEN: I wasn't even trying to do that.\n\nUNKNOWN: Maybe not prove it. \"Prove\" may have been a poor selection of words.\nWhat did you glean from yourself?\n\nBUNNEN: Well, I had a show just before all this happened. I was offered a show\nat the Chastain Gallery, and ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=1860.0,1890.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I had a vision about what I wanted to photograph,\nand somehow or other, those images were there for me. When I had worked that\nthrough, I didn't see those images anymore. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=1890.0,1920.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Then I just felt as if I needed to\nbe given a loose rein, I think. I think that I had allowed myself to be treated\nlike a child, I suppose, and allowed myself to be controlled by my husband, and\nall of a sudden I didn't ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=1920.0,1950.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"want to be controlled anymore. The kids were all grown\nup and beginning to have their own lives, and I did a lot with them. They were\nmy friends and companions. My husband was an oral surgeon, and he couldn't get\naway on vacations, because that's when most of his patients were wanting to see\nhim. So . . . I took the kids ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=1950.0,1980.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"on trips, and he wasn't along. He didn't want to\ndo a lot of the things that we were doing and wanting to do. It was becoming\nvery scary to suddenly realize that they were going to be gone, and on their\nown, and having their own lives, and I was going to be left with somebody who\ndidn't want to do any of the same things I wanted to do. I figured the only way\nI was going to do them was to break ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=1980.0,2010.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"loose. So, what did I prove?\n\nUNKNOWN: Are you comfortable with your choice?\n\nBUNNEN: Yes, I am.\n\nUNKNOWN: Six years later?\n\nBUNNEN: Actually, it's almost eight years later, because it's 1988, and we have\na better relationship than we've ever had before. We're still married, but, I\nwent to a psychic in ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=2010.0,2040.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"1973 who said that my husband and I were going to have two\nhomes. I thought, oh, good, we're finally going to have that ski house that I've\nbeen wanting to have. Little did I know that seven years later we were going to\nhave two homes. But it was amazing, because he described . . . the psychic\ntalked about my kids. He asked me if I had a picture. When I walked in, he asked\nme ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=2040.0,2070.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"if I had a picture of my husband, and I said, \"No, I just have a family\npicture.\" So, he talked about the three kids as well, and they were, at the\ntime, 14, 16. Teenagers. He said things about them that I could never have\nthought then, that that's how they would come out as adults, and they did.\n\nUNKNOWN: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=2070.0,2100.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"How have your children come out? [Unintelligible]\n\nBUNNEN: I feel good about how they've come out. The two married ones have both\nmarried very nice people who have good ethics and morals, and they're ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=2100.0,2130.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"both good\nparents. My third child, Melissa, has been very successful with this cake\nbusiness, which she started two years ago. The cake is here to try. But they're\ngood kids. They've never done drugs, they've never had any of the problems that\nkids have. They are supportive of me. They realize that their father and I ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=2130.0,2160.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"are\nvery different people. He's a very rigid person, and I'm a very open,\nenthusiastic, adventurous kind of a person. I think he realizes as much as I ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=2160.0,2190.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"do\nthat we have very different personalities. Yes, I mean, it's disappointing. You\nknow, one of my dreams was to have had the perfect marriage. But you can't sit\naround and wish you had the perfect marriage and let your life go by. And ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=2190.0,2220.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I\nthink my mother gave me the legacy that it was important to accomplish something\nin your life and to make something of your life. I feel guilty when I'm not working.\n\nUNKNOWN: In your ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=2220.0,2250.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"bio, you say that you would like your work to influence social\nchange, and I'm curious as to what type of social change you would like to\ninfluence now that [Unintelligible]\n\nBUNNEN: I have become very interested in the homeless. I've been talking to\nvarious other people around town, and I've ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=2250.0,2280.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"visited them, and I think it's a very\ncritical issue right now. I don't know what can be done photographically. I\nthink the real problem is what's happening commercially in midtown [Atlanta].\nFor instance, all the new buildings that are going up are putting these people\nout of low-cost housing. They have jobs, but they haven't got jobs that pay\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=2280.0,2310.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"enough to keep them in places that they can afford. So, I'm really thinking that\nphotographing these people in shelter is really not the way to go about [it].\nThere've been photographs made. Mary Ellen Mark has made photographs of the\nhomeless in California. It's certainly been brought to people's ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=2310.0,2340.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"attention, and\npeople know that that there are homeless people out there, but unless they are\nsitting in their backyard, messing it up, nobody is going to do anything about\nit. I really don't know what to do about it.\n\nUNKNOWN: Do you express your concerns verbally to groups as well as\nartistically? Are you ever asked to ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=2340.0,2370.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"speak to speak to a group, knowing that this\nsocial change that you would like to make, so therefore you're strengthening a\npurpose verbally as well as through your talents, like you're doing right now?\n\nBUNNEN: I'm just coming to understand what the problem is. Because I only just\ndecided to do this, I guess, in ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=2370.0,2400.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"December, and then I was away for several weeks,\nand was planning to start tackling the job now. I've been talking to some\npeople, trying to figure out what it's about and why I want to go out and\nphotograph, and then who I want to photograph, and how I want to photograph it.\nThen I hear about a fellow that's sort ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=2400.0,2430.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"of living in an empty lot that's kind of\npicturesque, but then so what? What is that going to show or accomplish? I think\nI'm asking a lot more questions than I used to. I used to be happy just to go\nout and make photographs, and I've been very successful at it. I get into shows\nall the ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=2430.0,2460.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"time. I'm always flabbergasted. I just found out this morning that I got\ninto a big show that the head of the photography department at Princeton was one\nof the jurors, and the head of the art department at Parsons was the other\njuror, and I got three pieces in. But then I think, so what? What does that\nmean? It's just another item on the ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=2460.0,2490.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"resume. I can hang my resume from the sky\nnow, because I keep getting new things on it. As a matter of fact, I was hoping\nto show some of my work, and if we had met the first snow date, I would have\nstill had work. In fact, if we'd met the second snow date, I would have had\nwork. But everything got messed around, and I've got ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=2490.0,2520.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"50 pieces in a show in\nColumbia [South Carolina], at the Fine Art Museum in Columbia, South Carolina\nright now. He came and picked them up, as it turned out, the Monday that you all\ndidn't come. I have work in a show at Nexus, and work in the Mardi Gras show,\nand work in North Carolina, and I don't have any work here.\n\nUNKNOWN: Lucinda, I don't know whether this ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=2520.0,2550.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"relates to your social concerns in\nany way, but you mentioned the fact that your family was Jewish and how it was\nsuch a new thing in the community to which you moved. Did you feel the impact of\nbeing Jewish at any other time in your life, or do you feel that it is in any\nway related to your growing social concerns?\n\nBUNNEN: Probably, to some extent. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=2550.0,2580.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I don't know what my mother had in mind, but\nshe always sent us to schools and camps where we were the only Jews, so I was\nalways a misfit. Then when I became a photographer . . . I started working with\nsome people in film before I became a photographer. The Jewish didn't have\nanything to do with it, but I didn't want anybody to know where I ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=2580.0,2610.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"lived, because\nI wanted to be one of them. I was sort of a misfit because I lived on the\nnorthwest side of town, and everybody else lived over there somewhere.\n\nUNKNOWN: So, there wasn't a great deal of Jewish contact in your family life?\n\nBUNNEN: None!\n\nUNKNOWN: . . . Back to your grandparents?\n\nBUNNEN: My father grew up in Savannah [Georgia], and he decided one Christmas\nthat we should ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=2610.0,2640.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"learn something about Judaism, and so he decided to read to us\nout of the Bible about the particular holiday we were celebrating at the time.\nMy mother kept saying, \"I don't think you're reading the right holiday.\" And\nwhen he got through, it said the holiday was Purim.\n\nUNKNOWN: He had no Jewish upbringing himself?\n\nUNKNOWN: What did he think it was, Hanukkah?\n\nBUNNEN: I think in the ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=2640.0,2670.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"South back in those days . . . Well, yes, he decided we\nwere going to put our Hanukkah star on the top of the Christmas tree. That was\nsort of the basis of it all.\n\nUNKNOWN: What about your mother's Jewish background?\n\nBUNNEN: She was anti-Semitic, I swear she was.\n\nUNKNOWN: You said they traveled all over Europe. Where were they from?\n\nBUNNEN: My grandfather's name was [Aaron] Nusbaum, and he had nine sisters, and\nthey grew up in Germany. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=2670.0,2700.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He was bringing his sisters over one by one and getting\nthem married off to the German Jewish men. When my mother was 12 . . . this is a\nbust of my grandfather, and it was done in 1911 or 1912.\n\nUNKNOWN: Is that your mother's ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=2700.0,2730.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"father?\n\nBUNNEN: [Yes,] my mother's father. I think there was a lot of anti-Semitism in\nNew York, and he changed his name to Norman in 1912 when she was 11. I was just\nthinking about it recently. That had to be traumatic, to find out that Nusbaum\nwas not an appropriate name, and that people wouldn't ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=2730.0,2760.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"like you if your name was\nNusbaum, but they would like you better if your name was Norman. You become not\nso Jewish, or you think it's better to be not so Jewish.\n\nUNKNOWN: You had no formal Jewish education?\n\nBUNNEN: None. The first time I was ever in a temple was when my aunt took me to\nTemple Emanu-El in New York. But my ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=2760.0,2790.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"sister . . . she had a debutante party. I'm\nnot sure if there were any Jews at her debutante party, but they sent us to\nViola Wolf in New York for Jewish dancing classes. I had a party for the Jewish\nsociety, and of course I absolutely didn't fit in there. I mean, all these New\nYork Jews, and here I was ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=2790.0,2820.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"out milking cows.\n\nUNKNOWN: Somewhere in the material sent to us it mentions Frank Weil as your\nbrother, or some relative. In New York there is a Weil family that is very, very\nbig [Unintelligible: includes the word 'Jewish'] Is that your family, or\npart of your family?\n\nBUNNEN: No. Not at all, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=2820.0,2850.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"no. He's a different Frank Weil. My brother is very\ninvolved politically. In fact, he's just gone from Iowa to New Hampshire on the\nDukakis campaign. I thought he was going to be here tomorrow, but I haven't\nheard from him.\n\nUNKNOWN: What gave you your feeling of Jewish identity? Obviously, you have some\nfeeling of Jewish identity.\n\nBUNNEN: When I moved to ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=2850.0,2880.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Atlanta, Phoebe had already come here and was married to\nDeJongh, and Dee had some Jewish identity. Then I married Bobby, and he didn't\nhave very much Jewish identity. But I think my son is responsible. He went to\nSunday School and he was confirmed. He went to Lovett ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=2880.0,2910.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"School, and he wanted to\ntake the holidays off. I said, \"If you take the holidays off, you're going to\nhave to do something. What are we supposed to do?\" I had no idea what you were\nsupposed to do when you lit the candles. I mean, I knew how to sing Christmas\ncarols, and we went to an Episcopal school and an Episcopal church, and at\nChristmastime we all went to the church. That was because our governess took us\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=2910.0,2940.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"there. We were always impressed that even though we didn't know much about\nJudaism, we were Jewish. It was difficult, because I know when I was at prep\nschool, we were sitting around in the dorm one day and some kids were talking\nabout Jews, and I said, \"That's not true,\" and they said, \"How do you know?\" And\nI said, \"Because I'm Jewish!\" And they said, \"You're not. We don't believe it.\nYou've just putting us on.\" I said, \"Well, I ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=2940.0,2970.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"am, but I don't know very much\nabout Judaism,\" and I thought I really ought to find out a little bit more\nbefore I got into a heated argument. But I at least was willing to say that I was.\n\nUNKNOWN: It's interesting you married a Jewish man, too. Was that an accident,\ndo you think, of fate, or did you want to marry someone Jewish?\n\nUNKNOWN: Did you have dates with gentiles?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=2970.0,3000.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BUNNEN: Yes, sure. My father died, and my mother decided that I needed to get\nmarried. That she needed to go on with her life, and she wasn't going to be able\nto go on unless I got married.\n\nUNKNOWN: Were you the youngest?\n\nBUNNEN: No, I'm the middle. We were less than three years apart, and I was the\nmiddle. Both my sister and brother got married at 19. My brother, I think, got\nmarried at ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=3000.0,3030.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"19 . . . and all to Atlanta people. His wife isn't Jewish. He married\nDeenie Sanderson, whose father was an orthopedic surgeon, here in Atlanta.\nPhoebe introduced them. She was going to Wellesley, and he was going to Harvard,\nand he had a car, so he was a better date than some of the other guys that were\ngoing from Atlanta. So, they dated. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=3030.0,3060.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Actually, he took her to a movie. The\nSandersons lived on Nancy Creek, and when he drove up in front of their house,\nshe didn't get out, because she, being a good Southern girl, didn't let herself\nout, and he, being an unchivalrous Northerner, didn't know that he was supposed\nto get out and let her out. So, they sat in front of the house until 4:00 in the\nmorning, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=3060.0,3090.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"talking. He never put his arm around her. But they discovered that they\nhad a lot in common, and my father was sick. He was dying of cancer. I think my\nbrother really wanted to sort of lay his life out in front of him before he\ndied. They say that they got pregnant intentionally the first week. It was a\nlegitimate 9-month baby, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=3090.0,3120.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"but her parents were very upset, because she's a very\nbright girl and she was going to ruin her education. But she decided that baby .\n. . she said she planned the baby for the first day of Christmas vacation, and\nit came the first day of Christmas vacation. She was in . . . I've forgotten\nwhat she was taking, but something with a lot of lab courses, and she realized\nthat she couldn't do labs and nurse a ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=3120.0,3150.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"baby. So, she transferred to Radcliffe and\ntook Oriental art because there weren't any labs, and graduated with highest\nhonors. This daughter that they had then, when they were . . . they were both 19\nwhen they got married. They both turned 20, he in four days and she in one\nmonth, so they were actually 20. She was ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=3150.0,3180.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"20 when she had Debbie. Debbie\ngraduated from Harvard on their 20th anniversary, and their whatever anniversary\nfrom Harvard. Everybody else had little babies, and they had a daughter at Harvard.\n\nUNKNOWN: Is she the one who followed your interest in photography?\n\nBUNNEN: No, that's the second one. She also went to ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=3180.0,3210.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Harvard.\n\nUNKNOWN: What brought you all to Atlanta?\n\nBUNNEN: We think it must have been in our blood. We had a cousin from Savannah\nwho was working at Bloomingdales and had known DeJongh at Georgia, I think, or\nsomewhere, and he stopped to look him ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=3210.0,3240.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"up when he was on his way to Harvard Law\nSchool. Sam said, \"I can't have lunch with you, I'm having lunch with my\ncousin,\" and he said, \"Who's that?\" And Dee said, \"Phoebe Weil.\" Sam said, \"Oh\nshe's my cousin!\" So anyway . . . wait a minute . . .\n\nUNKNOWN: How you got to Atlanta.\n\nBUNNEN: That got screwed up.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=3240.0,3270.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN: The three of them ended up going to lunch.\n\nBUNNEN: No, Dee proposed to Phoebe soon after that first meeting, and then moved\nback here. Frank and I came to visit, and Phoebe fixed Frank up with Deenie, and\nthey got married. Then, two years later, my father died, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=3270.0,3300.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and the story goes that\nmy mother proposed to Dr. Bunnen, only he didn't know whether she was proposing\nfor herself or for me!\n\nUNKNOWN: Was she?\n\nBUNNEN: She thought he would make a very suitable husband, because he was\nhandsome, and he was a doctor, and the children would be attractive and smart enough.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=3300.0,3330.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN: It's nice you all got here.\n\nUNKNOWN: How long was it . . .\n\nUNKNOWN: Wait, wait. Do you resent that? That she \"chose\" your husband for you?\n\nBUNNEN: Well, in a way, I thought I probably wouldn't find somebody that was\nacceptable, because I probably would have married some lumberjack. That would\nnever have been acceptable, so, I figured ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=3330.0,3360.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that, maybe . . . When you're young,\nyou get married and you think that you're going to be able to change him. I\nthought in time, and with privilege, that Bobby would learn to enjoy some of the\nthings that I enjoyed and that he had never had the experience of knowing about\nbefore. We ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=3360.0,3390.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"just didn't grow together, really, the way I hoped we would.\n\nUNKNOWN: I was curious to know if the women's movement had any effect at all on you?\n\nBUNNEN: Absolutely. I had some stationary made, \"Mrs. Robert L. Bunnen.\" I\nordered it one day, and when it came, I thought, What?! Of course, the women's\nmovement had ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=3390.0,3420.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"something to do with that. I thought, that's not a person. That\nperson doesn't exist. I have a name, and I am an individual. I feel very\nstrongly about women using their own names. I really like seeing Bob and Ethel\nwhatever, or Dr. Robert and ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=3420.0,3450.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ethel whatever. A very good case in point is after\nPhoebe and Dee were divorced I got an invitation to a social event, a benefit,\nand the list of hosts . . . in the lists of hosts were Mr. and Mrs. DeJongh\nFranklin. I thought, oh, my god, haven't they heard? Then I thought, oh, my god,\nthere is a ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=3450.0,3480.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"new Mrs. DeJongh Franklin. One minute Phoebe's Mrs. DeJongh Franklin,\na very important member of the community, and the next minute there's another\nMrs. DeJongh Franklin! It just shocked me, and there you've got it.\n\nUNKNOWN: How did you [Unintelligible] while the children were growing up,\ngetting involved in the ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=3480.0,3510.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"communal kinds of volunteering that so many women get\ninvolved in, you know, [Unintelligible: may include 'affluent' and\n'philanthropy']? Or did you avoid it?\n\nBUNNEN: Oh, no I've been very involved, but not particularly Jewish things. The\nfirst year I came here, every Jewish ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=3510.0,3540.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"organization was after me. \"Come to this\nluncheon, and that tea.\" I had no identity with these women at all, or\nluncheons, or women rolling bandages. That wasn't anything I could identify\nwith. But I knew that there was a niche for me ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=3540.0,3570.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"somewhere. I've been very\ninvolved in grassroots organizations. Emerging organizations.\n\nUNKNOWN: Such as?\n\nBUNNEN: I was a founding member of Nexus Contemporary Arts Center.\n\nUNKNOWN: . . . Arts Festival?\n\nBUNNEN: . . . and Arts Festival, and I was one of the founders of the Atlanta\nHunter Jumper Classic, which first was a benefit for multiple sclerosis.\n\nUNKNOWN: Lucinda, what about the ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=3570.0,3600.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"National Black Women's Health Project that you\nmanaged? Can you tell us a little bit about that? A lot of your projects, I\nnoticed, are kind of non-traditional.\n\nBUNNEN: Right.\n\nUNKNOWN: There's another one. A Southern . . .\n\nBUNNEN: . . . Fund for of Southern Communities.\n\nUNKNOWN: Yes. Could you tell us about the Black Women's Health Project, and\n[Unintelligible]\n\nBUNNEN: I met a woman in New York ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=3600.0,3630.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"who introduced me to Billie Avery, who was the\nfounder and director of the National Black Women's Health Project. Somehow, we\njust came together, and I was very taken with her. I think she's just an\nincredible person and is doing an incredible job, and was very excited about it.\nThey needed some money, and I wanted Phoebe to get involved, and was hoping that\ntogether we ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=3630.0,3660.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"could really make a difference. Phoebe was very sick, and we never\ncould get the meetings arranged at the time. I ended up giving enough money, and\nraising some other money, for them to buy a house which we named the Phoebe\nhouse because it all happened just about when she died . . ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=3660.0,3690.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":". The Fund for\nSouthern Communities funds small grassroots organizations that wouldn't be able\nto raise the money on their own. I've been very interested in IMAGE Film and\nVideo, which is a grassroots organization that's promoting [and] helping\nfilmmakers and video ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=3690.0,3720.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"makers be able to do their work, and have facilities for\nthem, and show new works.\n\nUNKNOWN: What is Jargon? You mentioned being on the board of Jargon.\n\nBUNNEN: Jargon is a far-out literary organization that published photography\nbooks and poetry books, and it's an incredible group of ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=3720.0,3750.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"people. They have been\nuncovering folk artists all over the South. Amazing women, especially, who have\nbeen working at home for years, and years, and years, and nobody has ever seen\ntheir work. They are saving their work and showing it. Our most successful book\nwas White Trash Cooking. I don't know if any of you have seen ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=3750.0,3780.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"it, but it has\nsold hundreds, and hundreds, and thousands of copies now.\n\nUNKNOWN: Do you still see yourself as a misfit?\n\nBUNNEN: No, not as much anymore, because I've found my place. I'm more honest\nwith myself. I'm not trying to pretend that I'm not Jewish or not ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=3780.0,3810.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"wealthy. I'm\ntaking responsibility for my money instead of . . . one of the things that I'm\nvery interested in is the Women's Foundation in San Francisco [California],\nwhich has a branch called \"Managing Inherited Wealth,\" which is teaching women\nto be responsible, and stand up and take responsibility for their money, and not\njust let their husbands or ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=3810.0,3840.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"their trust officers give the money away. I've\nrecently discovered that . . . a couple of years ago, one percent of the\nphilanthropic collar went to women's organizations. It's now up to two percent.\nI mean, the Boy Scouts can raise money, and you go to raise money for the Girl\nScouts and they say, \"Hey, you guys sell cookies. You do what you do best.\" Of\ncourse . . . ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=3840.0,3870.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"most of the people that give away money are men, so the women that\nhave money should be responsible for it, and should support women's\norganizations and all kinds of things. Battered women, child abuse, shelters of\nall kinds.\n\nUNKNOWN: What are the plusses ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=3870.0,3900.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/131","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and minuses that having money caused you in your life?\n\nBUNNEN: I think in a way it isolates, from what I see now in some women that\nI've met recently, some through the National Black Women's Health Project. They\nfeel very isolated, and they feel out of control. They've never had control of\nwhat was theirs.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=3900.0,3930.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"UNKNOWN: What about you personally?\n\nBUNNEN: I felt completely out of control. I wanted my husband to have the power\nand the control, because . . . I want to be able to be accepted for myself and\nnot for my money. That was my thinking ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=3930.0,3960.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"then. [To] not have people want me for my\nmoney. I want them to want me because I could contribute something personally. I\nfelt that he needed that to be more self-confident, or secure, or feel more\npowerful in the community, and that if I had the power, where would he be? I\nthink a lot of women feel that way, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=3960.0,3990.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/134","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and women really should have 50 percent of\nthe power, even if their husbands have made the money. They have helped them\nmake the money. They wouldn't have made the money without the wife being there\nto support them. But they don't take 50 percent of the responsibility of it. I'm\nvery adamant about ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=3990.0,4020.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/135","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that and speak out about that a lot these days.\n\nUNKNOWN: Do you think that it was a hindrance to you in any way?\n\nBUNNEN: Well, as my mother used to say, rich or poor, it's nice to have money,\nif you have to have a choice. I think in ways I'm spoiled. I don't think I'm as\nspoiled as . . ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=4020.0,4050.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/136","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":". I think in a way it was a hindrance, or I thought it was a\nhindrance, but in a way, I could take more risks. I could go out there in the\nminefield, and if my camera got blown up--of course I wasn't going to get blown\nup--but if my camera got blown up, I could get another one, and the people who\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=4050.0,4080.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/137","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"have hocked everything to get that camera are not going to go out in a minefield\nand risk it. I will go into places that most everybody else I know won't go. In\na way, I suppose . . . if you've got money you can buy your way out.\n\nUNKNOWN: You can also buy your way ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=4080.0,4110.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/138","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"in.\n\nBUNNEN: I've been in a lot of cases where . . . I picked up some Indians on a\nreservation, and it was freezing cold, and . . . anyway, long story. But then\nthere was no way to get rid of them, but I knew I could take them to the next\ntown as soon as we could get out. We were stuck. But if we ever got out, I ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=4110.0,4140.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/139","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"could\ntake them, and deposit them in a motel, and pay for their room, and say, \"Here.\"\nI wasn't going to put them out at 20 below zero with no clothes on, essentially.\nI always have the wherewithal. It was interesting, though, on one of the trips,\nI needed some more cash. I was out of cash. I had credit cards, but I was\ngetting low on cash. So I went into a ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=4140.0,4170.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/140","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"bank and asked if I could get a couple of\nhundred dollars on my Visa card. She came back and said, \"No,\" and cut my Visa\ncard in half, and I said, \"Why?\" And she said, \"Because it's been cancelled.\"\nSo, I called home, and Bobby said he'd lost his, and so he had to cancel it. I\nhadn't talked to him in a few days, so I didn't know that. But I thought, no\nproblem, I've got an American ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=4170.0,4200.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/141","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Express card. When we got to New Orleans\n[Louisiana], which was the next big town, I went into American Express and I\nsaid, \"Can I get a couple hundred dollars?\" And they went . . . I said \"Why?\"\nAnd they said, \"Because your green card is no longer valid. You've got a gold\ncard.\" Bobby had ordered me a gold card before I left on the trip, and it hadn't\ncome before I ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=4200.0,4230.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/142","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"left. I was just using my green card, and the gold card was\nsitting here, and of course the green card was no longer valid. I said to my\ntraveling companion, \"Wow. This is pretty exciting. I have never not had any\nmoney. We'll have to tighten our belts up.\" She said, \"Well, I have been in this\npredicament before, and I don't like ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=4230.0,4260.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/143","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"it.\" So, I called Bobby and he wired some money.\n\nMODERATOR: Just for the tape, because it's really not on the tape, what did your\nfather do for a living, and where did all the money come from?\n\nBUNNEN: My grandfather bought Roebuck's share of Sears.\n\nUNKNOWN: Is this your maternal grandfather?\n\nBUNNEN: This one, my maternal grandfather. My ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=4260.0,4290.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/144","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"mother inherited the money and\nbasically had a very good financial advisor who set up trusts for us, and our\ngrandchildren still have trusts.\n\nUNKNOWN: Did your father work?\n\nBUNNEN: My grandfather bought him a seat on the [New York] Stock Exchange in\n1929, or 1930, or something like that. It was the most expensive seat that was\never purchased from the Stock ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=4290.0,4320.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/145","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Exchange. Then the crash . . . I'm not sure\nexactly how that went. But the story goes he bought him a seat on the Stock\nExchange, and he commuted from Katonah, which is about an hour on the train to\nNew York, for 12 years, and then retired and became a gentleman farmer, and was\nvery busy around the farm.\n\nUNKNOWN: What happened back ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=4320.0,4350.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/146","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"in Savannah? Wasn't he from Savannah?\n\nBUNNEN: He left there when he was 19. He went to New York. So, he'd been in New\nYork for 15 or 16 years when they got married.\n\nUNKNOWN: Did you have grandparents in Savannah?\n\nBUNNEN: My father's parents, but we never knew them very well. They died when I\nwas quite young, so we really never knew them. But to answer your question,\nactually, my father would never have needed to ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=4350.0,4380.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/147","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"work, because they had enough\nmoney that they could live very comfortably without it. My mother never would\nhave needed to work, either, you understand.\n\nUNKNOWN: I'd like to get back to your own work, again, from the material\n[Unintelligible] It has a title that has intrigued me very much, called\n\"Death: The Frame Around . . .\"\n\nBUNNEN: It is a strange ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=4380.0,4410.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/148","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"title.\n\nUNKNOWN: Is it a series? Is it [Unintelligible: possibly about the\npotential meaning of the frame] it comes out maybe like one of drama? I'm\ncurious about the meaning of it, if you could . . .\n\nBUNNEN: I knew at one time, and I've forgotten. \"Death: The Frame Around the Picture.\"\n\nUNKNOWN: That could mean a lot of things.\n\nBUNNEN: That's the whole point. That was the whole point, and it was a very\ndiverse show. Actually, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=4410.0,4440.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/149","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the photograph that I had in the show was one of my\nmother shortly before she died, and that little chair that's behind you that was\nin her apartment, and became my chair. It has the spotlight on it. My mother has\na patch on her eye and she's plainly . . . she's in a robe. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=4440.0,4470.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/150","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It's really a\nportrait of me, I think, because of the spotlight being on the chair, the\ndaughter's chair. But you can read lots of things into it.\n\nUNKNOWN: You've mentioned Phoebe several times, your sister. What kind of\nrelationship did you have with your sister Phoebe?\n\nBUNNEN: We were very different. As a child, she used to complain that I ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=4470.0,4500.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/151","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"would\ncome and lump her on her bed, which was that I would go into her room and lie\ndown on the end of her bed and sort of want to talk, and she never really gave\nme the time of day.\n\nUNKNOWN: She was the oldest of the three?\n\nBUNNEN: Yes. It was always a disappointment to me, I think, when . . . they\nmoved to ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=4500.0,4530.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/152","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Washington [D.C.]. Dee went up to be in the Carter administration, and\nthen when they were coming back, they were fixing up a house here, and so she\nwas staying here while they were doing that, and I thought, I'm so excited! This\nis a chance for us to be together. [But] she spent all her time either on the\nphone, or having lunch with somebody else, or, you know, quickly doing what she\nhad to do while she was in Atlanta, and ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=4530.0,4560.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/153","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I didn't see very much of her then,\neither. I mean, in a way, we had a close relationship, but in another way . . .\nWe were very close as couples and raising our children, and we did a lot of\nthings together, but . . .\n\nUNKNOWN: You didn't share your feelings? Is that what you're trying to say?\n\nBUNNEN: Maybe, yes.\n\nUNKNOWN: Never really sat and talked . . .\n\nBUNNEN: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=4560.0,4590.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/154","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Right.\n\nUNKNOWN: . . . as two human beings would talk, not as, necessarily, sisters or relatives?\n\nBUNNEN: Right. I think she treated me as if I were inferior, and that she didn't\nhave time for me. I'm being very honest. It was a very superficial closeness, I\nthink, because as ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=4590.0,4620.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/155","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"families we were very close. They had a boat at the lake and\nwe would go up for the weekend, and we had Sunday lunch here [or] at her house\nevery Sunday, practically, back-and-forth-ing. Our kids were raised almost like\nsiblings. I mean, there were some other extenuating problems.\n\nUNKNOWN: Was ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=4620.0,4650.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/156","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"she more similar to your mother, in some ways, than you feel you\nare, or not?\n\nBUNNEN: I don't know. It's really funny; my mother thought she was beautiful.\nShe was a beautiful baby. Phoebe was ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=4650.0,4680.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/157","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"always, I think, intimidated by her. I\nthink she blossomed after my mother died, actually. Then she became the\nmatriarch of the family, and I think everybody felt that, and I think there's\nbeen a lot of lightening up. We can do things our way. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=4680.0,4710.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/158","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Also, Phoebe liked to do\nthings very fancily, elaborately, and I liked to do things very simply. I\npreferred to entertain by making my own bread or whatever, and she preferred to\nentertain by having it catered and having it much fancier. Bobby always thought\nI didn't do it as well as Phoebe did, but ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=4710.0,4740.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/159","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I did it the way I wanted to do it.\nBut it wasn't good enough in his eyes, and I think I probably thought in her\neye, too. But I don't think I was wrong, still.\n\nUNKNOWN: As they say, in retrospect.\n\nUNKNOWN: What about your relationship with your brother?\n\nBUNNEN: He is married ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=4740.0,4770.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/160","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to a very bright, dynamic woman who totally intimidates me.\n\nUNKNOWN: He's married to the same woman?\n\nBUNNEN: Yes. They do very well together, and she has trained him very well. They\nhave an island in ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=4770.0,4800.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/161","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Maine, and he can stay on that island by himself now, and he\ncan do the grocery shopping and cooking. He's become very resourceful, because\nshe started an organization called The Missing Half, which was to try to\nregister the half of the voters in the United States that aren't registered. She\nraised $1,000,000 in a week to start this organization. She got David\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=4800.0,4830.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/162","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Rockefeller and a couple of other people. I mean, she's a dynamo. She's actually\nquite like my mother. Anyway, they are too fast for me.\n\nUNKNOWN: Did he work?\n\nBUNNEN: Frank?\n\nUNKNOWN: Yes.\n\nBUNNEN: Yes. He still does. He's a lawyer, and he has worked as a lawyer for\nsome, and he was a partner in an investment banking ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=4830.0,4860.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/163","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"firm for a while, and he was\nassistant director of commerce under Juanita Kreps during the Carter\nadministration. He now has a venture capital company called Abacus. He works\nvery, very hard. He has a lot of Japanese clients. He travels back and forth to\nJapan and all over the ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=4860.0,4890.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/164","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"country. He was asked to be the top financial person for\nthe governor of New York, [Mario] Cuomo, and if Cuomo had run for president, he\nwould have been one of his top advisors.\n\nUNKNOWN: [That] might still happen.\n\nBUNNEN: Might still, right.\n\nUNKNOWN: They don't live in Atlanta, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=4890.0,4920.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/165","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"though?\n\nBUNNEN: No, no. They've never lived here. They've always lived in New York and\noutside of New York, and now they live in New York and Washington. He lives in\nNew York five nights a week, and Deenie works in Washington. But she's got a\ncomputer in both places, so she spends two nights a week in New York. She leaves\nTuesday afternoon after work, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=4920.0,4950.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/166","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and spends Wednesday and Wednesday night in New\nYork and goes back to Washington on Thursday. They have a social life in both\nplaces. They're unbelievable. They have a Washington house, a large New York\npenthouse, an island in Maine with a whole community of houses on it ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=4950.0,4980.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/167","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"for all the\nkids--I mean, it's just a family island--and a place out in Snowbird, Utah where\nthey go to ski, and Deenie has bought an apartment in Paris where they now go\nseveral times a year. She rents. I mean, she runs it as a rental thing.\n\nUNKNOWN: Where do you like to go?\n\nBUNNEN: I like to ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=4980.0,5010.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/168","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ski, and I've been visiting in Santa Fe, New Mexico recently,\nand I love it out there. I like the people and I like . . . it's just wide open\nspaces, and I like it a lot.\n\nUNKNOWN: Do you prefer to travel alone?\n\nBUNNEN: Alone? No. I have a friend in North Carolina, who, when she heard that I\nwas going to a meeting in ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=5010.0,5040.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/169","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"San Francisco, said, \"You've got to meet my cousin,\nher name is Lucinda and she's a photographer.\" So, I called her when I was out\nthere last February, and we had lunch together, and we were talking about\ntraveling. She had done a lot of traveling, and so have I. I said, \"Where are\nyou going next?\" And she said, \"To India.\" I said, \"With the Friends of\nPhotography group, by any chance?\" And she said, \"Yes.\" I said, \"Well, I'm\nplanning ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=5040.0,5070.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/170","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to, too!\" So, we decided we would room together, and we had a great\ntime together. It's amazing. It's like looking in the mirror. She's the same\nheight, we weigh the same, wear the same size clothes. We don't use the same\ncamera. We don't shoot the same picture, except she shoots over my shoulder\nsometimes. We've become very good friends as a result of all this, and it's very ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=5070.0,5100.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/171","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"amusing.\n\nUNKNOWN: Have you ever met Ansel Adams? And Also [Unintelligible: based\non context possibly a question about her favorite photographers]\n\nBUNNEN: Yes, I have met Ansel Adams. In fact, I was invited to dinner . . . did\nanybody read about the woman . . . A man and a woman are having this big\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=5100.0,5130.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/172","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"divorce, and they bought 90 Ansel Adams photographs in one weekend, or something\nlike that? Anyway, they had Elizabeth, his wife, and son, and daughter-in-law to\ndinner, and I was invited. It was a very small dinner party. It was the first\ntime I'd met them, but I had met Ansel when he was here. In fact, I photographed\nhim, and in fact the photograph was used in American Photographer. So that was\nkind of nice. Edward ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=5130.0,5160.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/173","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Weston is a photographer I've admired very much. Lee\nFriedlander, a contemporary photographer, William Eggleston, another\ncontemporary Southern photographer. Both of them . . . Women photographers,\ncontemporary, Judy Dater . . . I don't know if you're familiar with any of these\nnames. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=5160.0,5190.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/174","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Oh, and I can't think of her name, but I love her work. Help! Annie\nLeibovitz? She's more commercial.\n\nUNKNOWN: Have you done any teaching, or are you interested in that at all?\n\nBUNNEN: I have done some teaching. I taught out in Jefferson, Georgia for a\nsemester, and ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=5190.0,5220.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/175","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I taught a semester at the Atlanta Art Institute, and I've taught\na couple of shorter things, and I've done that now. Everything I've done, I've\nsort of done once. I'm willing to try anything, but then ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=5220.0,5250.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/176","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"once you've done it,\nyou don't have to do it again, and you move on to the next thing.\n\nUNKNOWN: I wanted to ask you, in your photography, you apparently love taking\npictures. Do you love developing and being in the darkroom?\n\nBUNNEN: I have. I used to love being in the darkroom, and I spend a whole year\ndoing some very creative stuff. I was using heat along with light, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=5250.0,5280.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/177","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"playing\naround with that, and getting incredible colors. Then everybody was saying,\n\"You've got to patent it,\" and I didn't know how I could patent it, because I\ndidn't know exactly what I was doing. But I felt like a witch down there with\nthis witches' brew. I had a wonderful time doing that. Then I started shooting\nin infrared, and I enjoyed doing that, and I've started shooting ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=5280.0,5310.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/178","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"slides. I've\nmade my first Cibachrome prints, and then I decided that that wasn't something I\nhad to do. There isn't a lot to do. It's not like making black and white prints.\nBut I got to be quite a good printer, and I've got a wonderful darkroom\ndownstairs, but I've gotten too involved in all these community projects, and I\ndon't have time for my own work anymore! I really don't. Which is one of the\nreasons I've ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=5310.0,5340.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/179","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"enjoyed going out to Santa Fe, because I've gotten off a number of\nboards that I'm on. I'm on a couple of new ones, I have to admit. But I've\ndecided that I will still do what I can to help. I've been involved with The\nBridge Family Center since 1970, since the first year it started, and I've been\nvery interested in that. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=5340.0,5370.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/180","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I just got off the board in January, so that was a long\nstint, and I worked very hard for them.\n\nUNKNOWN: What do you wish for your children? We haven't heard a lot about your\nchildren. What do you wish for them as human beings?\n\nBUNNEN: I hope that they'll get to a point where they can develop more interests\noutside of their home and get involved in the ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=5370.0,5400.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/181","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"community. Belinda has gotten\ninvolved with the Center for Puppetry Arts because she's a preschool teacher,\nand she loves children. That seemed to be a very good avenue for her, and she's\non the board there. She's really found her niche. Melissa's looking for a spot.\nShe's done a lot of community things, different things, sort of looking for what\nshe wants, and she really hasn't found her niche yet. But I think she ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=5400.0,5430.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/182","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"will. My\ndaughter-in-law in Washington . . . my son is on a lot of boards in Washington,\nand my daughter-in-law is a lawyer, and I think when she's done with her\nchildren--she's got a one-year-old child--I think that she'll get involved. So\nyes, I would like to see them involved and be good citizens. I hope they don't\nfeel that they have to work as hard as I did.\n\nUNKNOWN: Has [your husband] ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=5430.0,5460.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/183","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Rob ever shown an interest in politics?\n\nBUNNEN: Not really.\n\nUNKNOWN: Practicing law?\n\nBUNNEN: He's the legal counsel for an investment company, and he's very\ninterested . . . he's been asked to speak at a number of conferences because\nhe's the authority on some particular part of ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=5460.0,5490.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/184","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"investment. They live very close\nto my brother Frank, who is involved in politics, as you can see. Also, we have\na foundation, a family foundation, the Norman Foundation, and I'm on the grant\ncommittee this year. I've been alternating. We give to mostly civil rights and\ncivil ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=5490.0,5520.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/185","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"liberties and some, not political, but sort of grassroots things. But the\nNorman Foundation has been very influential . . . every time I mention the\nNorman Foundation people say \"Ah,\" The Norman Foundation has done some fantastic things.\n\nUNKNOWN: Would Grandpa Norman have supported the same sorts of things that ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=5520.0,5550.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/186","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"he\ngrandchildren are supporting these days?\n\nBUNNEN: Maybe not, maybe not. We hung on to some of the things that he started\nwith, but we've grown, and it's a family foundation. My cousin Andrew Norman, he\nand Frank head the Norman ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=5550.0,5580.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/187","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Foundation, and we have an executive director who\nbrings the stuff in, and we meet four times a year, and we have an annual\nmeeting. We give a lot of money away.\n\nUNKNOWN: Well, thank you so much. We're almost out of tape. This has been\nreally, very delightful. Thank you for sharing everything with us.\n\nBUNNEN: Thank you for wanting to!\n\nALPERT: [My name is] Merna Alpert and I'm interviewing Lucinda ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=5580.0,5610.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/188","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Bunnen, 1988, in\nher home. There has been in the past a group interview done a number of months\nago, and there are some things that are a bit confusing from that group\ninterview. Why don't we start by trying to clear those up? I do have questions,\nand I will get the chronology, but, for example, you have a brother and a sister.\n\nBUNNEN: Right.\n\nALPERT: Your sister is ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=5610.0,5640.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/189","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"older and your brother is younger?\n\nBUNNEN: Right.\n\nALPERT: All right, and your sister's name is . . . ?\n\nBUNNEN: Was.\n\nALPERT: Was.\n\nBUNNEN: Phoebe Weil Franklin Lundeen. Weil was her maiden name. Franklin was her\nmarried name for 30 years, and then they were divorced, and she married John Lundeen.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=5640.0,5670.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/190","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ALPERT: Alright, then. Frank is your brother.\n\nBUNNEN: Right.\n\nALPERT: And is he married to Deenie?\n\nBUNNEN: He's married to Deenie Sanderson Weil, and she was from Atlanta.\n\nALPERT: Then your father's name was Weil?\n\nBUNNEN: Right.\n\nALPERT: Alright. That also confused me in the earlier, but alright. Who is Dee?\n\nBUNNEN: Dee, DeJongh Franklin, was Phoebe's first husband.\n\nALPERT: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=5670.0,5700.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/191","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I see DeJongh and I think of an area in France.\n\nBUNNEN: Right, and his nickname was Dee.\n\nALPERT: Then, your father's name was Weil?\n\nBUNNEN: My father was Sylvan Weil, from Savannah.\n\nALPERT: Not related to the Weils of New York who are so well known in philanthropy.\n\nBUNNEN: No, but there is a Frank Weil, which people confuse with my brother\nFrank Weil.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=5700.0,5730.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/192","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ALPERT: In the earlier [interview] you said that your father had come to New\nYork many years before he and your mother married.\n\nBUNNEN: He came to New York when he was 19, and they were married when he was 35.\n\nALPERT: Took a long while. What kind of work did he do before he was married?\n\nBUNNEN: Before he was married, he went to ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=5730.0,5760.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/193","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Pennsylvania Military College and . .\n. no, I really don't know what he did before, now that I come to think of it.\n\nALPERT: Did he work, to earn a living?\n\nBUNNEN: Yes, he did, but I'm not sure what he did! I really don't know. But I\nknow that he worked on the Stock Exchange after my mother and he were married.\n\nALPERT: That's another question: did he work on the Stock ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=5760.0,5790.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/194","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Exchange before the\ncrash in 1929, or after?\n\nBUNNEN: I think he worked on the Grubber Exchange, maybe, before he was married,\nand then my grandfather paid the highest sum for a seat on the Stock Exchange\nBoard that was ever paid at the time, which was what, right before the Depression?\n\nALPERT: Well, the Depression hit after the Stock Market crash ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=5790.0,5820.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/195","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"of 1929.\n\nBUNNEN: If he paid a lot of money, it was before. It must have been before the crash.\n\nALPERT: Did the crash affect . . . were you told if the crash affected your\nfamily's financial status?\n\nBUNNEN: My grandfather hired a young man named Bill Jacobs who was in his\ntwenties, and Bill had a very good sense ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=5820.0,5850.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/196","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"about how to do things apparently, and\nwe seemed to have come through the crash very well. I mean, obviously, we didn't\ngo down in the crash, and we lived in a large house in Katonah, New York, with\nfive or six servants in the house, and . . .\n\nALPERT: Throughout the whole Depression.\n\nBUNNEN: Throughout, nothing changed. Nothing ever changed, and I was\nflabbergasted ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=5850.0,5880.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/197","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that year, about schoolmates, classmates, who had to move from\nlarge houses, you know, into apartments. I couldn't understand what happened. I\ndidn't understand how all that was taking place, really.\n\nALPERT: I was just wondering, the Stock Market crash, the Depression, how it\naffected ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=5880.0,5910.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/198","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"your father's state of functioning, but, apparently, it didn't [affect\nhim] badly, as far as you know. As far as you were told.\n\nBUNNEN: I don't know how he did in terms of the Stock Market. I know he had a\njob, and he commuted to New York every day for 12 years.\n\nALPERT: That was quite a commute in those days.\n\nBUNNEN: It was. It was about an hour and fifteen minutes, with many stops and\nall, but he did it, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=5910.0,5940.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/199","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and then he retired and became a gentleman farmer. But I\nsuspect we probably lived on my mother's money during all that time. Although I\ndidn't know that there was his and hers at that point in time. I never did.\n\nALPERT: They pooled their resources?\n\nBUNNEN: Oh, yes. They absolutely pooled their resources and acted as a unit. It\nwas their money, our money, as a couple.\n\nALPERT: You know, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=5940.0,5970.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/200","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"in the previous interview, there were many, many questions\nabout your mother, who was a most unusual person. There was not too much about\nyour father, and I'm trying to get a sense of him as a person and your\nrelationship, and how you feel he affected you, and so forth.\n\nBUNNEN: He was a very handsome man, and kind of very outgoing, wonderful\npersonality, and I think won the hearts of everybody, and was ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=5970.0,6000.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/201","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the eligible\nbachelor around New York who invited to, what's his name . . . [unintelligible] and he used to tell tales of [unintelligible]. Actually, not too\nmany. My mother was much more of a story teller than he was, but he was\ncertainly the ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=6000.0,6030.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/202","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"man about town. Somebody died in his family, and in his way of\nmourning, he decided to take out a serious girl, maybe for the first time.\n\nALPERT: That was your mother?\n\nBUNNEN: That was my mother. My mother referred to his previous girlfriends as\nfloozies, and [unintelligible: possibly about whether or not she should go\ninto detail] . . . ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=6030.0,6060.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/203","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"their sexual life.\n\nALPERT: Only tell us as much as you want!\n\nBUNNEN: It was always interesting. I didn't understand what she would tell me,\nbut she said that he was never a great sexual companion because he had been with\nthese . . .\n\nALPERT: . . . so many others?\n\nBUNNEN: . . . so many women who were one-night stands, and which I gathered\nmakes a big difference. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=6060.0,6090.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/204","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But he loved the earth and he loved animals, and so did\nI. I think I learned some about farming and a love for animals from him, or at\nleast from following him around. I think maybe I learned more from the groom and\nthe dairyman, because when we went hunting as little children, we always went\nwith the groom. The children were sent with the groom, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=6090.0,6120.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/205","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and he hunted in his\nfancy clothes. But I didn't have a very close relationship with [my father]. I\nthink I did mention that I was the middle child, and I always felt as if I . . .\nI think when parents have governesses, and nurses, and nannies, and stuff, they\nsort of ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=6120.0,6150.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/206","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"go in the nursery and pick up one and pick up the other, then leave. My\nanalogy is Phoebe was beautiful. Everybody always thought she was beautiful all\nalong. She certainly was a beautiful baby from the baby pictures. She was\ngorgeous, and then 17 months after she was born, I was born, and I was ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=6150.0,6180.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/207","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"remotely\ncute, but . . .\n\nALPERT: . . . not beautiful . . .\n\nBUNNEN: . . . not beautiful, and then, 13 months later came the boy, then, and\nthe wanted boy. The governesses always liked me because I wasn't spoiled, and\nthey felt I was the warmest and the least demanding as I was growing up. I think\nI always had much more of a relationship, or rapport, with the governesses, and\nthe ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=6180.0,6210.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/208","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"groom, and the dairyman, and the hired people. My mother was . . .\n\nALPERT: You found them more responsive?\n\nBUNNEN: Yes. They took us to do things. We went up on Griffin [Hill] and learned\nabout the stars. One took us to the nature preserve there, and we learned about\nthe trees and flowers. They took us skating, and, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=6210.0,6240.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/209","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"you know, they were the ones\nthat were molding my life. My mother took us shopping in New York once a year,\nor twice a year, which I hated. I never needed anything. I didn't want anything.\nI had my blue jeans, and my shirt, and my sweater, and my belt, and my\nmoccasins, or whatever I wore, and I guess I had my riding clothes, and I felt\nthat was all I ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=6240.0,6270.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/210","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"needed. If I went to a party, then it was tough.\n\nALPERT: You had a dress, too, I'm sure.\n\nBUNNEN: Shopping was not high on my list. Wasn't then and still isn't. My mother\nwas always trying to tell us the facts of life walking down the streets of New\nYork, which was a great embarrassment. One of the things that they did do well\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=6270.0,6300.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/211","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"was tell us that we were going to have money, and that we were going to have\nresponsibility, and that is sort of . . .\n\nALPERT: . . . part of your growing up?\n\nBUNNEN: . . . part of growing up, which I think was a very, very good thing. My\ncousins, on the other hand, never had that. They turned 21 and had no idea that\nthey were going to have money or what to do with it, or how to use it.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=6300.0,6330.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/212","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ALPERT: Money from your mother's side, or your father's?\n\nBUNNEN: It was from my mother's side. She had one brother, and he had two\nchildren. She had three children, so there were two in her generation, five in\nour generation, and now there are 16 in the next generation, and they're\nlearning to take responsibility.\n\nALPERT: That's a good idea.\n\nBUNNEN: Interestingly enough, I think our side of the family, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=6330.0,6360.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/213","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"we have . . . my\nmother had nine grandchildren. Now there's yet another generation. Her brother\nhas seven grandchildren, but our nine are much ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=6360.0,6390.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/214","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"more . . . I don't know that\nthat's true, I was going to say more responsible. I don't think that's true. As\na matter of fact, I think the Norman children are more responsible, some of them\nare. [Unintelligible] They actually don't have as much money because\ntheir parents went through more money, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=6390.0,6420.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/215","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"because they didn't know how to deal with\ntheir money.\n\nALPERT: Were there cousins and relatives on your father's side as well?\n\nBUNNEN: Yes. As a matter of fact, he had a sister who got married when she was\n22, or something like that. He got married when he was 35.\n\nALPERT: Quite a difference.\n\nBUNNEN: They were five years apart to start with, so her children were getting\nmarried ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=6420.0,6450.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/216","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"when we were little children. So, it was sort of a split generation.\n\nALPERT: I guess what I was getting to . . . did you visit your father's family\nhere in the South when you were little?\n\nBUNNEN: Well, his family lived in Bedford [New York], the next town.\n\nALPERT: Oh, I thought they were from Savannah, or somewhere like that.\n\nBUNNEN: He was from Savannah, but his sister moved up North, too, and married a\nbusinessman, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=6450.0,6480.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/217","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"who did very well, and they had two children.\n\nALPERT: So you had that kind of family around.\n\nBUNNEN: They were more there, really, than my mother's family, who lived in New\nYork. My father's sister's daughter's son, you know how all that work, who was\nmy first cousin . . . or I guess he's my ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=6480.0,6510.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/218","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"second cousin, is Michael Eisner, who\nis now head of Disney World. Disney. . . Walt Disney everything. He is the head\n[Unintelligible] he's been on the board for/cover of Vanity Fair, Life,\nTime, he's on television all the time. He is just terrific. He is a fabulous\nfather, a wonderful son. . .\n\nALPERT: And a relative.\n\nBUNNEN: . . . and a very nice relative! I was in ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=6510.0,6540.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/219","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Beverly Hills [California] one\ntime, in a trip in my Volkswagen van, and I called him, and he couldn't call me\nback because I was driving around town. He was beside himself. He took us in,\nand he is just very, very family oriented.\n\nALPERT: Oh, how nice.\n\nBUNNEN: He's a very, very nice young man, and, anyway, he's sort of a ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=6540.0,6570.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/220","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"celebrity\nat this point.\n\nALPERT: I was going to ask also, neither of your parents were what anyone would\ncall actively Jewish. That has been made abundantly clear. How did you know you\nwere Jewish when you were growing up?\n\nBUNNEN: I didn't. I didn't know. I mean, I was told that I was Jewish, and one\nyear they put a Hanukkah star on the Christmas tree and said this was a ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=6570.0,6600.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/221","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hanukkah\nbush. My father decided one time that we should know something about Hanukkah,\nand so he started reading out of the Bible, and we got to the end of the\npassage, and it said, \"And this festival was called Purim.\" So that was where he\nwas coming from, and my mother was, I suppose, anti-Semitic, if she was anything.\n\nALPERT: How was that shown?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=6600.0,6630.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/222","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BUNNEN: In still insisting, \"we are Jewish, but I don't like Jews.\"\n\nALPERT: But how was it shown?\n\nBUNNEN: Well, her father changed his name when she was 12. He was Nusbaum, and\nchanged his name to Norman when she was 12. That was during a period in New York\nwhen people didn't want to be Jewish. It wasn't fashionable to be Jewish. It\nwasn't ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=6630.0,6660.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/223","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"acceptable, and obviously everybody was trying to avoid that. She wasn't\nreally in school. She started going to school when she was 12. She had been\nraised by governesses, and taught by governesses, and she spoke five languages\nfluently, and when she was 12, they decided it wouldn't be a bad idea if she\nwent to a New York school. They took her to Greerly and ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=6660.0,6690.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/224","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the headmistress\ninterviewed her and asked her what five times five was, and she said 55, so they\nsaid she didn't really fit. They didn't know what class to put her in. So, she\nwent to a one room school, and when she was 15 she was ready for college and was\naccepted for college. I don't know who her friends were, really, because she\nhadn't ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=6690.0,6720.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/225","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"been in school up to then. They had traveled a lot in Europe. I suppose\nit wasn't fashionable to be Jewish in Europe at that point.\n\nALPERT: It's easy to see how they lacked Jewishness, but you have said she was\nanti-Semitic, and I was wondering what that meant, differently than just being not-Jewish.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=6720.0,6750.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/226","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BUNNEN: Well, let's see. When they moved to Gujema there were no other Jews.\n\nALPERT: I know, I know the area.\n\nBUNNEN: The lady that lived next door was a direct descendant of John Jay, the\nfirst Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.\n\nALPERT: Okay.\n\nBUNNEN: She was a friend, and knew that they were Jewish. They scorned people,\nas a matter of fact, who moved into the area and claimed not to be Jewish.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=6750.0,6780.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/227","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ALPERT: . . . When they were.\n\nBUNNEN: When they were. My parents did not do that. They definitely said they\nwere Jews, and it was very difficult to get us into the private school there,\nbecause they had never taken a Jew before. Mrs. Islum rallied for us and lobbied\nfor us and we got in. We never did join the country club there. We belonged to\nthe Century Club, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=6780.0,6810.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/228","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"[Unintelligible] Jewish Club. I know that some Jewish\norganizations tried to solicit her for funds one time, and she didn't like the\nway they did it. My grandfather was a big supporter of the Jewish Federation,\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=6810.0,6840.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/229","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and our family continued the support of that for a long time. Strangely enough,\nmy brother doesn't give to any Jewish organizations in Washington or New York,\nwhich I just learned within the last month, which surprised me a lot. I had a\ndiscussion with my husband and he said, because I'm involved in a lot of things,\nhe said \"You need to ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=6840.0,6870.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/230","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"figure out . . .\"\n\nALPERT: . . . How much goes where?\n\nBUNNEN: Yes, \"Let's make a pie.\" I think we're giving a lot more to Jewish\norganizations than we are to other things that I'm involved in. Dee got us\ninvolved in . . . DeJongh Franklin got us involved in ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=6870.0,6900.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/231","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"AJC [American Jewish\nCommittee]. He was a very big proponent of AJC, and got us interested in that,\nand got us giving a larger amount than we maybe would have otherwise. [He] got\nPhoebe interested in a lot of Jewish things, or some. I don't think she actively\nworked for Jewish organizations, but they certainly gave. She was just some\nnational person for AJC one year.\n\nALPERT: Then she must have been very active at one point.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=6900.0,6930.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/232","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BUNNEN: I guess she was, but I think that was really the only thing.\n\nALPERT: Were any of the governesses who took care of you . . . none of them were\nJewish, I presume?\n\nBUNNEN: They were usually French. The governesses were. I don't know what the\nnurses were, and the servants in the house were everything - Norwegian, French,\nGerman, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=6930.0,6960.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/233","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hungarian.\n\nALPERT: But your mother was born here in the [United] States, right?\n\nBUNNEN: She was born in Chicago.\n\nALPERT: She was fascinating, but was she easy or difficult to live with, for\nyou, as a child growing up in that family?\n\nBUNNEN: She would have liked to have had a real ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=6960.0,6990.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/234","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"student, and she didn't get a\nstudent out of one of us. Well, my brother turned out to be a student, and I\nthink Phoebe turned out to be a student, but we certainly weren't good students\n. . .\n\nALPERT: . . . When you were young.\n\nBUNNEN: I don't know whether that was from pressure or, you know, whatever\nreason. I think I felt disappointment ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=6990.0,7020.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/235","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that I wasn't living up to what I should be.\n\nALPERT: The expectations.\n\nBUNNEN: I was an absolutely anti-reader, because she was trying to shove it down\nour throats. Phoebe and Frank didn't turn out to be non-readers, and she was\nalways taking me to reading remedial things, and I kept telling her that I\ndidn't need it. But to this day, I find reading very difficult, which is\nunfortunate, because ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=7020.0,7050.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/236","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I've got stacks of books I want to read. But then, on the\nother hand, I always get involved in more than I can handle, and don't leave\ntime for reading. It's funny because I've always thought of reading as something\nyou did for yourself, and I think that I feel as if it's a selfish occupation,\nand I should be doing something ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=7050.0,7080.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/237","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"else.\n\nALPERT: That's an interesting concept. Is that because reading is fairly solitary?\n\nBUNNEN: Probably. I mean, obviously, it's educational, and . . .\n\nALPERT: Sometimes. Not all times.\n\nBUNNEN: I think some of the problem I had with reading was--this is just an\nadult perception--that the books that ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=7080.0,7110.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/238","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I read, everybody had these utopic lives,\nI thought. They all lived in nice, little, solid families, and they all had\ndinner together nicely, and washed the dishes together, and had\nresponsibilities, you know, in their job, or . . .\n\nALPERT: . . . Took out the garbage, or what have you . . .\n\nBUNNEN: Right. We didn't have any responsibilities, and I think I assigned\nmyself responsibilities. I ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=7110.0,7140.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/239","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"never wanted to ride my horse if I didn't clean the\ntack, clean the horse, and saddle the horse. I wasn't big on calling down the to\nthe stable and saying, \"Would you get my horse ready?\" Because I felt that if\nthat was going to make me part of this nice little [Unintelligible] family\n. . . My father did use Jewish words sometimes. There was no ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=7140.0,7170.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/240","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"hiding the\nJewishness. I mean, I'm not the only one in the family that has said that about\nmy mother. When Phoebe and I were living here, we had a friend who converted to\nJudaism when she got married, and they used to have Seders, and my mother was\nhere a ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=7170.0,7200.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/241","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"few times for Seder. They had a variety of people, like [Unintelligible: possibly \"a nun\"] and Jewish people, and you know, just sort of a real\nvariety. I've forgotten what my mother said at the time, but she didn't believe\nin Jewish ritual. She didn't believe in religion.\n\nALPERT: I was going to ask you, did she believe in any ritual?\n\nBUNNEN: She was definitely . . . ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=7200.0,7230.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/242","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"she wasn't an atheist, but she was certainly\nagnostic. She believed that you were raised with certain values and that you\ndidn't have to go to church or synagogue every Sunday or Saturday to carry them\nout, and that that really was not the way to do things.\n\nALPERT: I know a few others who have that approach. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=7230.0,7260.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/243","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Okay, just to kind of round\nout some of these things that were hit head on and nobody knew where it was\ncoming from.\n\nBUNNEN: When I first came to Atlanta, my kids, when they went to school, said\nthey didn't want to go to school on the High Holy Days. I said, \"That's ridiculous.\"\n\nALPERT: If you don't celebrate, you go to ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=7260.0,7290.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/244","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"school.\n\nBUNNEN: You go to school, right. But they were embarrassed, and so then I\nstarted being embarrassed if I was out and about doing my business. Because in\nAtlanta, I felt as if people sort of . . . I don't think it's true, I don't\nthink people that aren't Jewish even notice whether you're out there or not, but\n. . .\n\nALPERT: The Jewish people would, if they knew you were Jewish.\n\nBUNNEN: The Jewish people would. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=7290.0,7320.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/245","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I've never been blatant about having a\nChristmas tree. If I was going to have people over for dinner before Christmas,\nI would wait and do the tree after the dinner party, because I don't think it\nmakes any sense to do that, rub people's noses in your idiosyncrasies.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=7320.0,7350.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/246","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ALPERT: Your father's family was Jewish in Savannah. I assume they came from\nGermany, otherwise they probably would have been Orthodox, in those days. Yet\nyour father was not particularly active in his religion, either, was he?\n\nBUNNEN: I think that there was a lot of ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=7350.0,7380.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/247","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"denial. I think he did go to religious school.\n\nALPERT: When he was a child?\n\nBUNNEN: They belonged to a temple, and he did have some religious upbringing. As\ndid my husband who then professed not to know anything about it when the\nchildren were going to Sunday School. They came home and wanted to light the\nHanukkah candles, and I said, \"What do you do when you light the Hanukkah\ncandles?\" I had absolutely no idea. I said, \"What do we do, sing Christmas carols?\"\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=7380.0,7410.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/248","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ALPERT: [Unintelligible] cute story about that.\n\nBUNNEN: But, you know, I said, \"Bobby, help!\" And he was absolutely no help. He\nhad no idea, or professed not to have any idea. I said, \"Well, look, if we're\ngoing to be Jewish, and send our kids to Sunday School, there's got to be a\nlittle continuity here, and I don't know what the tradition is.\" So, there\nwasn't any, really, except what ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=7410.0,7440.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/249","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"they brought from Sunday School. Then the girls\nweren't making any friends in Sunday School, which was one of the points of\ngoing, so they didn't even get confirmed. I let them quit before they got to do\nit, because I didn't feel as if they were really learning anything, and it\nwasn't being supported at home, and they weren't making any new friends. It\nseemed pointless. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=7440.0,7470.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/250","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I went to Ahad, and had no idea what you were supposed to do.\n\nALPERT: Didn't you get a book? A Haggadah?\n\nBUNNEN: No, I didn't even get a Haggadah.\n\nALPERT: Oh my.\n\nBUNNEN: But I began asking questions. I went down to a delicatessen and somebody\nsaid something about Haroset, and ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=7470.0,7500.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/251","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jane Abrahm was there, and Jane, who of\ncourse, grew up non-Jewish, was telling me all the things I should have for\nSeder, which I thought was kind of amusing. I worked at the Henry Street\nSettlement House when I was living in New York, and before the holiday season we\nwere told to do greeting cards for the kids. A couple of them came with their\ncards, and ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=7500.0,7530.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/252","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I said, \"How come these kids don't know how to spell Christmas?\" They\nhad written Hanukkah, and I didn't even . . . I'm sure I must have heard of\nHanukkah, but I didn't know it was spelled with a \"ch.\" I remember that one of\nmy classmates once asked me if I were Jewish, like ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=7530.0,7560.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/253","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"it wasn't a good thing to be.\n\nALPERT: Oh, yes, okay.\n\nBUNNEN: And I remember telling her that I wasn't, because I didn't want to lose\nher has a friend. I've always regretted that. Obviously, she already knew I was\nJewish or she wouldn't have asked me that. She knew I was, I didn't know I was.\nI didn't really know what that meant.\n\nALPERT: You've grown up ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=7560.0,7590.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/254","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"since then.\n\nBUNNEN: I have grown up.\n\nALPERT: You also said in the earlier tape, you called yourself a misfit, because\nyou were Jewish in a non-Jewish area [and] community, and then in schools and so\nforth. Did anyone else think you were a misfit besides you?\n\nBUNNEN: I don't know. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=7590.0,7620.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/255","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Probably not. The people in school didn't even know I was\nJewish, so they wouldn't have considered me a misfit I suppose. It's just how\nyou feel about yourself.\n\nALPERT: Right.\n\nBUNNEN: I think it's when you're not owning up to who and what you are. Oh, I\nstarted to say about my father, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=7620.0,7650.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/256","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"somebody in my father's family had nine girls\nand a boy.\n\nALPERT: Wow.\n\nBUNNEN: I think my father's father, he was the boy, and it was easier for their\nparents to refer to the family as the ten girls. So, they would come north every\nyear, and ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=7650.0,7680.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/257","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"they would dress him as a girl, because it was easier just to . . .\n\nALPERT: . . . to have ten girls . . .\n\nBUNNEN: . . . to just refer to them as the girls, or something like that. These\nthings certainly work their way out somehow. I just think that it's much better\nto own up to who you are, whether you're going to be ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=7680.0,7710.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/258","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"liked or not liked, or\naccepted or not accepted. Some people won't or can't accept the fact that you're\nJewish, or black, or whatever you are.\n\nALPERT: Was your mother considered a misfit because she was different?\n\nBUNNEN: Well . . .\n\nALPERT: Had you ever thought of it?\n\nBUNNEN: No. I mean, I think that in a way ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=7710.0,7740.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/259","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"she was a misfit, because my father .\n. . they moved out to the country to have this country life. Everybody went\nskeet shooting, and played bridge, and rode horses, and she lured my father by\npretending that she was going to be a riding companion. She knew how to ride,\nand she rode actually quite good on a horse, but she didn't like it.\n\nALPERT: It wasn't her thing.\n\nBUNNEN: It wasn't her thing. She pretended she knew how to ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=7740.0,7770.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/260","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"cook and made oatmeal\none time, which was the extent of her cooking, I think. But she raised flowers,\nand went to garden. Joined the garden club and went through the whole business\nof arranging. She was very good. She won lots and lots of blue ribbons, and was\nvery good at flower arranging. Then she raised dogs ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=7770.0,7800.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/261","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and did a lot of dog showing.\n\nALPERT: She really did fit into the country life in some ways, or tried.\n\nBUNNEN: Well, she tried, but she got very bored. I think it was her brother who\nactually suggested that she go back to school and not waste her mind. She\nintended to go to be a doctor, and then when she made that commitment ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=7800.0,7830.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/262","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"then my\nfather just had to learn to live with her being a misfit. But by then she had\nbeen through all the . . .\n\nALPERT: . . . proper things . . .\n\nBUNNEN: . . . the proper things, and it wasn't enough.\n\nALPERT: You also mentioned that your mother got her degree in chemistry, and had\na lab, what did she research in her laboratory? Do you know?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=7830.0,7860.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/263","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BUNNEN: Lots of technical names. They were working on pre-vinyl purity which\nmeans nothing to anybody. My father used to say she was not very good dinner\ntable conversation, because she would have to draw these atoms and things on the\ntablecloth, or the napkins, and I don't think people were particularly\ninterested. If she had been in political science or something it might have been\na more interesting field in terms of dinner parties.\n\nALPERT: In other words, she was in molecular ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=7860.0,7890.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/264","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"kind of stuff.\n\nBUNNEN: It was organic research, and they were actually doing some kind of\ncancer research. She worked on synthetic quinine, and her professor actually did\na paper on whatever it is that has replaced actual quinine for malaria.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=7890.0,7920.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/265","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ALPERT: You know you used the word laboratory and research, but there is\nresearch on so many different things. I was wondering what kind of things?\n\nBUNNEN: Right. This lab was doing fundamental.\n\nALPERT: All right, should I move along?\n\nBUNNEN: Yes.\n\nALPERT: Even if the Depression didn't really bother your family in one way or\nanother, Hitler was rising to ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=7920.0,7950.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/266","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"power during the 1930's. Did you have any sense of\nit, or was there any talk or feeling about it in your family during the Thirties?\n\nBUNNEN: I'm sure there was. I don't know whether it went over my head, or what,\nbut I remember when my sister went to Dana Hall in Wellesley, Massachusetts, and\nher ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=7950.0,7980.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/267","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"roommate's mother had escaped over the border near Graand/Granden, and she\ntold this great tale of crossing the border at night in their nightgown, or\nsomething like that. It was the first time I had ever really, graphically,\ngrasped the nature of the whole thing. I really didn't have a tremendous sense\nof it.\n\nALPERT: Being in Katonah, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=7980.0,8010.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/268","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"not in New York City, I feel it's easier not to have.\n\nBUNNEN: I think more after [World War II] started, the air raid drills and camps\nin upper Westchester [New York] there.\n\nALPERT: As far as you know, then, your parents, your brother . . .\n\nBUNNEN: The most the War ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=8010.0,8040.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/269","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"affected me was that there was gas rationing, and we\nhad to take the train to go to the movies in Mt. Kisco [New York] or Brewster\n[New York] or somewhere. In 1941 my father was working on the draft board set. I\nmean, I knew about the War, certainly. But as far as what the Nazis were up to\nwith the Jews, I really . . . ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=8040.0,8070.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/270","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"you know, unless you have somebody that's involved\nyourself . . . I would say that I lived a very sheltered life.\n\nALPERT: In the first interview, there was nothing about what was going on in the\nworld whatsoever, you know. Your mother and your father, and your own work, and\na mixed-up business about family history, chronology, and dates, and such, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=8070.0,8100.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/271","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"with\nno awareness of anything going on in the world, so I thought I'd ask.\n\nBUNNEN: Well, I really don't think I had much awareness of what was going on in\nthe world at all.\n\nALPERT: All right. But you do now?\n\nBUNNEN: I do, very much so, now.\n\nALPERT: How would you say you came to be aware of problems that other people have?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=8100.0,8130.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/272","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BUNNEN: As far as the Jewish thing is concerned . . .\n\nALPERT: Jewish and otherwise.\n\nBUNNEN: Well, there was that thing at the Jewish Community Center a few years\nago, the survivors of the Holocaust.\n\nALPERT: Oh, yes.\n\nBUNNEN: I got taken around by some of these. . . sort of a personal tour, and\nmet some people who were personally involved and really got to understand it\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=8130.0,8160.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/273","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"through some real personal stories and meeting the people. That makes much more\nof an impact on me than anything. I think I get an understanding of what's going\non in the world by personal contact with people, and being personally involved.\nBecause there's so much going on, and there's so many problems, and you begin to\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=8160.0,8190.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/274","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"wonder how in the world you . . . you just begin to feel responsible for all of\nit. You can't. You kind of just say, \"Stop, stop, let me just . . .\"\n\nALPERT: . . . focus . . .\n\nBUNNEN: \". . . focus on something.\"\n\nALPERT: You're saying when you first had contact with survivors from the\nHolocaust, that began to open you up to the problems that ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=8190.0,8220.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/275","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"other people have.\n\nBUNNEN: Right.\n\nALPERT: I was told, I wasn't in Atlanta then, that in the early 1950's, I think,\nthe Temple was bombed?\n\nBUNNEN: Yes.\n\nALPERT: Were you here then?\n\nBUNNEN: Yes.\n\nALPERT: Did you or your family have any reaction then?\n\nBUNNEN: Yes. We knew Jacob Rothschild, who was the rabbi. Jacob Rothschild was\nthe rabbi at the time, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=8220.0,8250.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/276","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and he was a friend. I mean, why did that happen, and who\ndid it, and what was going on. But I wasn't personally involved, and nobody I\nknew was killed, or maimed, and I didn't go to the Temple every Friday night, so\nmy seat wasn't upset. It wasn't as ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=8250.0,8280.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/277","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"if there was personal involvement there.\n\nALPERT: That's true. I've heard about it from other people. The other thing is,\nand again I'm hopping around, but I'm trying to answer questions that I had from\nthe other tape. Who is C.B who is married to DeJongh Hunn? At one point you said\nC.B. was married to DeJongh.\n\nBUNNEN: Francis Howell.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=8280.0,8310.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/278","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ALPERT: Wrong initials.\n\nBUNNEN: C.B. was married to Dejongh?\n\nALPERT: I have a question mark with that. Who was C.B.?\n\nBUNNEN: I don't know who C.B. is. Francis Howell married DeJongh. Their\nchildren's names are Alice Franklin and Andy Franklin. I can't imagine who C.B. is.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=8310.0,8340.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/279","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ALPERT: All right. The other thing is, you said, again in the other tape, that\nboth your sister and brother were married at age 19. Your sister was at\nWellesly. . .\n\nBUNNEN: No, she was not in school at all. She went to Westover, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=8340.0,8370.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/280","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"which was a\nfinishing school. She didn't ever go to college.\n\nALPERT: Then I must have misread it, or it didn't come across clearly.\n\nBUNNEN: I think she always regretted [not going to college]. But she went to the\nDeBarry's Success School. She was always overweight, and so there was always\nthat problem, and my mother was ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=8370.0,8400.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/281","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"always trying to get us both to lose weight,\nwhatever it took . . . Hey, Daisy. . . Of course, she [Daisy, the dog] isn't\nJewish, either, she's English.\n\nALPERT: [About Lucinda Bunnen's friend, also named Lucinda, who is also a\nphotographer] . . . name as you?\n\nBUNNEN: It's true. Confusing, but true.\n\nALPERT: That was the part I found confusing. She not only is a ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=8400.0,8430.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/282","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"photographer, but\nshe has the same first name, and you got along fine?\n\nBUNNEN: Yes.\n\nALPERT: All right. It was confusing.\n\nBUNNEN: When I met her, we were talking about traveling, and she had done a lot\nof traveling, and strangely enough, her grandfather had made money in Chicago at\nthe same time as my grandfather had. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=8430.0,8460.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/283","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It's been passed down through the\ngenerations in very much the same way, and she's had the wherewithal to be able\nto travel. I asked her where she was going next, and she said, \"To India,\" and\nwe were going on the same trip.\n\nALPERT: That's good. And you've been friends ever since?\n\nBUNNEN: Yes.\n\nALPERT: That really sounds like a good match made [Unintelligible]\n\nBUNNEN: It really has been ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=8460.0,8490.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/284","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"very good, because . . .\n\nALPERT: I haven't asked you much about your work because I feel in the previous\ninterview there was so much.\n\nBUNNEN: I've just gotten through making a couple of videos.\n\nALPERT: Oh, that's new!\n\nBUNNEN: Well, the High Museum ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=8490.0,8520.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/285","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"asked me to direct one for the new spectacle show,\nand yes, that was a very new experience. First of all, I've never directed\nanything. I've always done it myself. But I learned a lot. I just got finished\nwith that yesterday, and I made another one just before that, which I actually\nshot myself, and it was more of a ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=8520.0,8550.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/286","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"hands-on thing. This was more of sitting with\nan editor and making decisions.\n\nALPERT: Should we go back a minute and see where we were?\n\nBUNNEN: No, I know where we were. I like it that I have a talent.\n\nALPERT: You're handy with your hands or visionary, you're drawing or creating\nthings. [Unintelligible]\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=8550.0,8580.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/287","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BUNNEN: My father was a cabinet maker. My father made a lot of the furniture in\nour house, and so I did hold things for him some and watched him work. I always\nthought that I couldn't use a camera because it was too complicated.\n\nALPERT: I'm talking before the camera. Did you try drawing, or did you . . .\n\nBUNNEN: No, I never ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=8580.0,8610.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/288","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"did drawing, but I did always want to color. I really wanted\nto use a camera. I mean, I was devastated when my camera disappeared when I was\nin Europe, and I remember wanting to make images so that I could share them with\npeople. It wasn't that I wanted to draw them, I really wanted photos. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=8610.0,8640.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/289","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I think I\nreally did want to make photographs long before I did. I think I have a\ndifferent way of looking at things than a lot of people, although I didn't know\nthat either. [Unintelligible: possibly \"for a long time, either.\"]\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=8640.0,8670.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/290","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ALPERT: In other words, I guess one sense of what I was asking you was before\nyou got to use the camera professionally, more interestingly than just snap\nshots, you know, were you looking for other ways to express the creative things?\nWhether through sewing, or through . . .\n\nBUNNEN: Yes, I did. I was always doing something [Unintelligible] ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=8670.0,8700.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/291","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"because\nI first of all felt that it was important to make things for people. I think I\ngot that from the governesses. I preferred to make things for people for\npresents, than to buy things, because that was too easy. You know, if you have\nan allowance of $2, and you spend a dollar on a present for your mother, it\nreally gets Mom's heartbeat, right?\n\nALPERT: Yes.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=8700.0,8730.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/292","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BUNNEN: But if you've got endless amounts of resources, or enough to go around,\nyou haven't really given that much of yourself. So, to make something, and take\nthe time . . . When I had dinner parties, I always wanted to make it rather than\nhave it catered. I just felt catering was a cop out, and I was putting a whole\nlot more of myself into what I was giving to my guests by doing it ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=8730.0,8760.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/293","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"myself. It\nmight not have been as good, and they might not have appreciated it as much, but\nit meant something for me to do that. I think cooking was certainly a creative\noutlet, because I didn't know how to cook and I would just plunge right in, the\nway I've done with a lot of things. Somehow it magically came out great. But\nalso, I think I got from my mother that it's important to leave a ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=8760.0,8790.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/294","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"legacy, and,\nyou know, you can work through . . .volunteer for this organization, that\norganization, do all these things and . . .\n\nALPERT: Do that full-time if you want to.\n\nBUNNEN: . . . and when you're done . . . I know so many women who finally get in\ntheir fifties or sixties, and they say, \"Let other people do it. I've done my\nshare,\" you know. But what have they done, really? They've stuffed some\nenvelopes, and they've helped out with organizations, and I've certainly done my\nshare of that. But what's anybody ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=8790.0,8820.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/295","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"going to remember me for? For stuffing envelopes?\n\nALPERT: It depends on what you do, I think, as a volunteer. You might influence\nthe organization. Not by stuffing envelopes, but by some other form.\n\nBUNNEN: I've certainly done my share of that. But then I think I've felt as if I\nhad something more special to give that other people couldn't do, and I feel\ngood about that. That I can give my time to something professional, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=8820.0,8850.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/296","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and that . . .\n\nALPERT: It gives you and someone else pleasure, and it will last.\n\nBUNNEN: Yes, and I also think that it's a good role model to see somebody who\ndoesn't have to go out and work hard to do that. They see ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=8850.0,8880.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/297","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that you're not just a\nshowy, snobby, you know . . .\n\nALPERT: That you're contributing to the world, also, in a sense.\n\nBUNNEN: Right. Besides just with my living. I think a lot of people contribute\nwith influence. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=8880.0,8910.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/298","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I feel as if I've sat on a lot of boards and contributed a lot.\n\nALPERT: Are you in a position to choose which boards you sit on now?\n\nBUNNEN: I've chosen which ones I don't want to sit on anymore.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=8910.0,8940.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/299","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ALPERT: I'll be polite. I won't ask about those particularly.\n\nBUNNEN: I mean, I'm asked to sit on a whole lot more boards than I can. In fact,\nI clear the slate every once and a while, but never quite get it clear, and then\nI pick up a whole bunch of new ones, and then I'm back where I was.\n\nALPERT: Has the nature of the organizations whose boards you sit on changed over\nthe years? And why, if it has. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=8940.0,8970.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/300","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I mean, when you were married, and your children\nwere small and growing up, you sat on some boards then?\n\nBUNNEN: Yes, they have changed. I was the first woman to be on the board of\nLawrence Academy, which is a school in Gorton, Massachusetts. I was the first\nwoman in 105 years of its existence, and they had the winter meeting in Boston.\nThey had fall and spring meetings at the ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=8970.0,9000.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/301","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"school in Waltham, Massachusetts. But\nthe winter meeting was in Boston, and it was always held at their\n[Unintelligible] club, and it was [Unintelligible] and no women\nwere allowed in it. I'll never forget my first winter meeting was on my\nbirthday, and they had to change the room that they had been meeting in for\numpteen-thousand years. That gave me great pleasure.\n\nALPERT: Lovely.\n\nBUNNEN: I'm interested in different issues now. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=9000.0,9030.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/302","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I'm interested in women's\nissues, and human rights, and equal rights, and civil rights. You know, people\nhave a choice. Certainly, abortion comes in, that falls under women's rights.\n\nALPERT: Choices, yes.\n\nBUNNEN: Yes, and those really [Unintelligible] and I'm interested in ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=9030.0,9060.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/303","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"sex\nabuse, and child abuse, and I was one of the first supporters of the\norganization called Men Stopping Violence, which deals with men who beat their\nwives. Everybody said it wouldn't work. Two fellows started it, and I knew one\nof them. I believed in it, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=9060.0,9090.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/304","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and I gave them a big enough donation that they were\nthen able to get some other people, which is something I like. That's where I\nreally like to give money, is to new organizations, and give them enough money\nso that . . . I mean, $1000 per month from a recognized foundation is a very\ngood start, because it's enough of a commitment for them to then go to other\norganizations and say \"we have this.\"\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=9090.0,9120.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/305","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ALPERT: \"Can you match it,\" or what have you.\n\nBUNNEN: Or these people, she believed in us. $100 won't do it.\n\nALPERT: Right, right.\n\nBUNNEN: It takes $1000. You can't spread too many thousands. All those one\nthousand dollar donations, you eventually use it up, but I think it's real\nimportant. It's very risky, because you don't know whether it's going to work or\nnot, but there are a lot of organizations ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=9120.0,9150.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/306","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"in this town that would say that they\nwould never have gotten off the ground had it not been for my support and belief\nthat they could do it.\n\nALPERT: That should be very satisfying.\n\nBUNNEN: I just feel as if that $1000 is a lot more important than $1000 to an\norganization that has a budget of $1,000,000. They need people to give those\nthousands of dollars, but those ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=9150.0,9180.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/307","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"people don't know about the things that I know\nabout. So that in the network I'm in . . . I think I'm in a network and know\npeople that don't know very many people to tap. In fact, most of the people that\ntap me have nowhere else to go, and I really like that kind of influence.\n\nALPERT: Yes. It's very potent.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=9180.0,9210.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/308","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BUNNEN: As far as Jewish organizations, I feel as if there are lots and lots of\nwealthy Jews, and they give. Jews give more than anybody else. [Unintelligible] and I did some fundraising for a while. I prefer not to do that, but I\nwill do it when there's nobody else to do it. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=9210.0,9240.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/309","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I used to go to Jews and ask for\nmoney for the Arts Festival or Theater Atlanta. This was back when my kids were\nyounger, and they'd say, \"No, we give it all to U.J.A. [United Jewish Appeal]\"\nand I used to think, damn it, if these people could give $100,000, or whatever,\naway every year, they would give $90,000 to U.J.A. and keep $10,000 ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=9240.0,9270.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/310","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"for\ncommunity organizations. Because this town wouldn't be very interesting if it\ndidn't have . . . There's got to be more depth to the city than just the very\nbasics, the museum, and the symphony, and the theme . . .\n\nALPERT: . . . and the Nutcracker . . .\n\nBUNNEN: . . . and the Nutcracker. The things that are high visibility, which\neverybody loves to give to, and they love to go to the parties. [Unintelligible: something else about parties] ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=9270.0,9300.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/311","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Although, we have done plenty of that, too,\nI just would rather . . . and I used to enjoy going to [Unintelligible]\nand those things. Now they're just so crowded that they have to turn people away.\n\nALPERT: Oh my.\n\nBUNNEN: So they don't need my money, then, because I'd rather have them take the\nnext person and use ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=9300.0,9330.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/312","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that space. If they can get their money, then fine, because\nthere are plenty of other people that can use my money that can't get somebody\nelse's money.\n\nALPERT: That's very true. I guess I should ask you which are some of the\norganizations that you so support now?\n\nBUNNEN: Well, I just came from a meeting of New Visions again, which is a\ncity-sponsored gallery. Harry Sanford, director of the Bureau of Cultural\nAffairs ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=9330.0,9360.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/313","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"wanted to start this gallery to support regional emerging artists and I\nfelt it was an important thing to have here in Atlanta. It's still in the very\nprimitive stages, [Unintelligible] plenty of problems, but we've also had\na lot of good shows. What else? ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=9360.0,9390.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/314","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I've just gotten off the Bridge Family Center,\nwhich I was on for twenty years.\n\nALPERT: I didn't even know it was that old.\n\nBUNNEN: I went on after it was six months. It was six months old when I was\nasked to be on it in 1968. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=9390.0,9420.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/315","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That was an important one. I'm on the High Museum\nBoard, and the 20th Century Board, and Program Committee for the 20th Century Society.\n\nALPERT: What is the 20th Century Society?\n\nBUNNEN: It's concerns are 20th century artists who do decorative work in society.\n\nALPERT: Okay, I just didn't know.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=9420.0,9450.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/316","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BUNNEN: I've just gotten off the Art [Unintelligible] Board, and they\nkeep trying to get me back on, and I keep swaying back and forth. I ought to\nlook in my resume to find out if I haven't just been to the meeting. I can't remember.\n\nALPERT: You've indicated some of the criteria that you use for ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=9450.0,9480.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/317","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"either giving a\ngood chunk of money or being on a board, and one of them is addressing a need\nlocally. Are there other criteria you have for contributing money or becoming\ninvolved in other ways, being on the board, or whatever? That's a basic one, obviously.\n\nBUNNEN: I'm Chairman of the Council of Allies for the National Black Women's\nHealth Project, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=9480.0,9510.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/318","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"which is here in Atlanta, and I think I was very instrumental in\nhelping them get off the ground and get started. I like people, and I think I've\nbeen able to help them a lot. What was your question? Criteria?\n\nALPERT: Yes. Even if you haven't thought it out specifically, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=9510.0,9540.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/319","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"criteria by which\nyou decide whether to give money or to be on a board or be active with an\norganization. One, of course, is the local need.\n\nBUNNEN: Right. I'm also a Trustee of Friends of Photography in California, San\nFrancisco, which is new this year. I felt as if I could . . . there's nobody\nelse from the Southeast. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=9540.0,9570.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/320","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There are a lot of interesting people on the board, and\nI just thought it would be interesting from my own standpoint, and that I could\nprobably represent the Southeast, so I decided to do that. Part of it is things\nthat interest me, that I think I can contribute something [to] for some reason,\nor be ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=9570.0,9600.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/321","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"helpful [to] somehow. It's a give and take thing. It's not totally altruistic.\n\nALPERT: You're very legitimate, I think, in many directions. Okay, I'm going to\njump back again. Usually I don't jump so much, but [Unintelligible]\ninterview with me too. You said when you were growing up, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=9600.0,9630.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/322","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"your father's sister\nwith her children lived nearby, isn't that true? You and your sister have lived\nhere, and your children sort of grew up here. Your father did not. Does the\nfamily seem to be spreading further and further apart, or are they still\nclumpsome? That's the wrong word, but . . .\n\nBUNNEN: I think there's definitely a clump here and definitely a clump in\nWashington. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=9630.0,9660.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/323","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"My brother's daughter lived here for about five years. She is a\njournalist, and she got a job at the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, and her\nhusband went to Emory at Grady and that's where he did his intern residency, and\nPhoebe's daughter moved back here. She married and moved to St. Louis, and then\ndivorced and moved back ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=9660.0,9690.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/324","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"here. Andy, Phoebe's son, still is in Colorado, so he's\nreally the only one . . .\n\nALPERT: The outpost.\n\nBUNNEN: . . . that's outposted himself. Frank's only married child lives in\nWashington, near where they live, and very near where my son lives, so there's\nthat enclave. Then Frank's other three children. One is ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=9690.0,9720.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/325","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"graduating from Harvard\nthis year, one has been working in Newark and may be moving to Newark, Rhode\nIsland, to do boats, and the other one lives in SoHo. She seems to\n[Unintelligible]. They have three in New York, but [Frank and Deenie] live\npart-time in New York and part-time in Washington. So, Washington and Atlanta\nare really ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=9720.0,9750.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/326","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"where the families are.\n\nALPERT: And your father's nine sisters. They went back to Savannah?\n\nBUNNEN: They were aunts. We're going to have a family reunion in Savannah in March.\n\nALPERT: Oh boy!\n\nBUNNEN: And there is [Unintelligible].\n\nALPERT: . . . when you walked away, because it doesn't pick up so far.\n\nBUNNEN: Anyway, he kept reciting all these people that we were supposed to know.\nIt was hard ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=9750.0,9780.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/327","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to know these people that he kept talking about. We've never met\nthem. But then we did meet some. This is the list of the relatives.\n\nALPERT: Oh my goodness. That must be about 75, 150.\n\nBUNNEN: Probably, something like that.\n\nALPERT: Wow.\n\nBUNNEN: Some of them live in Savannah. One of them lives in Nerpisco, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=9780.0,9810.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/328","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Seattle\n[Washington] . . . Athens, Georgia. Never heard of Debra Smith who lives in\nAthens, Georgia.\n\nALPERT: That's fascinating.\n\nBUNNEN: There are several Atlantans. I don't know, some of these names do ring a\nbell. But anyway, that should be . . .\n\nALPERT: It should be an interesting experience. It's the first family ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=9810.0,9840.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/329","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"reunion\nthat you know of?\n\nBUNNEN: No, there was one other, but I didn't go.\n\nALPERT: Oh. This one, you're going?\n\nBUNNEN: This one, I'm going, and all my kids, I think, are going. We decided it\nwould be fun.\n\nALPERT: I'm sure it will.\n\nBUNNEN: So what did you . . . ? Oh, my father and his nine aunts? Well, these\nare all the relatives. I'll find out about those nine aunts. Come back and\ninterview me after March.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=9840.0,9870.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/330","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ALPERT: At this point, I think you had said something about an appointment?\n\nBUNNEN: I did. I had another meeting, which turns out to be on Thursday.\n\nALPERT: So I haven't overstepped the time. I was a little worried.\n\nBUNNEN: No, it was a 4:30 meeting. I'm on the board of the Atlanta College of\nArt, and I had it down for this afternoon and then I realized I also have it\ndown for Thursday, and I thought, wait a minute. One of these had got to be\nwrong. I think they must have sent out a sheet ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=9870.0,9900.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/331","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"way ahead, and then they must\nhave changed it.\n\nALPERT: Well at least I haven't kept you past your time. I think I'm beginning\nto wind down at this point, I don't know about you. But if there's something\nelse that you feel has been important in your life that we haven't covered, you\ncall me and we'll set up another time, and if I think of something that escapes\nme now, I'll call you and we'll see, okay?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=9900.0,9930.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/332","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BUNNEN: I'll say one other thing. I went to a Women of Wealth retreat.\n\nALPERT: I didn't know they had them.\n\nBUNNEN: The Fund for Southern Communities has organized this. Well, there's one\nin California called Managing Inherited Wealth, and then the Fund for Southern\nCommunities has organized this one. It was very interesting meeting other women\nwho had inherited wealth. They are a very wealthy ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=9930.0,9960.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/333","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"bunch of people. Most of them,\nif you met them on the street, you would think that they might even be homeless,\npractically. There's a lot of guilt, which I think, women who marry rich men . . .\n\nALPERT: More the guilt?\n\nBUNNEN: No, they don't have a problem spending money at all. But it's women who\ntry hard to own their power, and accept their power, accept the fact that they\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=9960.0,9990.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/334","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"have power, which I think I tried to avoid. I didn't want anybody to know that I\nhad money, and did a lot of things to hide that. Then I discovered that life was\nmuch better if you own up to who you are and it's okay to say no sometimes.\nThat's really kind of a new thing for me, because I . . .\n\nALPERT: Is it recent?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=9990.0,10020.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/335","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BUNNEN: I think I didn't know how to handle the power, and so I just said to my\nhusband, \"you do it all.\" Then you find you've lost everything. I was really\nlike the poor little rich girl because he was keeping the checkbook, and if I\nspent something on something that he thought was ridiculous, instead of being\nsupportive about it, or saying, \"Why? ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=10020.0,10050.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/336","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Why did you do that? Why did you buy that?\nWhat made you think that was important to do?\" He made me feel like I'd been a\nbad girl, and guilty. I used to say I felt as if I was in jail, and I really\nwanted to get out and wanted to be my own person. It's taken me ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=10050.0,10080.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/337","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"some time and\nstruggle to learn how to do that. It takes learning, if you haven't done it\nearly in life, and especially if you have somebody who's trying to smush you,\nand you don't have any self-confidence. I'm very sympathetic to the homeless\nwomen who have been beaten and abused and have no self-confidence. They are\nsmart enough, but they ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=10080.0,10110.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/338","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"can't go out and get a job because they don't have the\nconfidence to go and have the interview, and until they build themselves back up\n. . . it's a vicious circle.\n\nALPERT: That's part of it. There's another reason, also, and one is that they\ndon't have an address or a telephone where they can be reached, and that hinders\nyou when you're looking for a job.\n\nBUNNEN: That definitely hinders you. But I spent some time with them, and it was\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=10110.0,10140.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/339","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"definitely [Unintelligible] and they knew it, too. They knew that what\nthey had to do was work on their self-confidence and their self-esteem before\nthey could go out and do anything else.\n\nALPERT: In a sense you had to do the same thing.\n\nBUNNEN: Yes, exactly. Unrelated to money, absolutely. [Unintelligible]\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=10140.0,10170.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/340","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Phoebe was very out with her money the moment she came here. I felt as if it was\neasy to buy your way onto boards or to be wanted, and dressed magnificently, and\nnothing was too good for her. But I think you know in retrospect, I'm not sure\nshe had a whole bunch of self-confidence either. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=10170.0,10200.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/341","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Only she . . .\n\nALPERT: . . . showed it differently. . .\n\nBUNNEN: . . . showed it differently. But I've not yet met a perfect family or\nthe perfect person. I mean, I think everybody has . . .\n\nALPERT: Absolutely.\n\nBUNNEN: Which is a shame, you know? You would think if you had good looks,\nplenty of money, good health, a good personality . . .\n\nALPERT: There's always something.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=10200.0,10230.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/342","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"BUNNEN: . . . and smart enough, and all that, that you would have it all.\n\nALPERT: I guess nobody is perfect. No family is perfect.\n\nBUNNEN: It's not the perfect part. It's that you should be able to have it all,\nbut you can't have it all. Nobody can have it all. Something goes wrong. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=10230.0,10260.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/343","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I mean,\nyour kids . . . you either do too much or too little, or you sit on them too\nhard, or something goes wrong. I mean, even for the people who maybe have maybe\neverything else, then they find their kids are on drugs or something. Overdose\nand die, you know, something tragic. People never get over that. I guess the\nbest thing to do is try to do the best you can, and hopefully get some enjoyment\nout of it. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=10260.0,10290.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/344","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That's pretty important too, isn't it?\n\nALPERT: Oh yes.\n\nBUNNEN: As well as giving enjoyment to others.\n\nALPERT: There must be a mutual, two-way process. Well, I'm going to ask you to\nsign this so we can use it. I'm sure you did it before also.\n\nBUNNEN: Probably so.\n\nALPERT: And I want to say thank you. I know you've taken a lot of time.\n\nBUNNEN: I think it's going to be very interesting . . .\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=10290.0,10320.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/transcript/24645/annotation/345","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ALPERT: I think so, because . . .\n\nBUNNEN: . . . to read the outcome of all of the people, because I'm sure there\nare no two interviews even remotely alike.\n\nALPERT: No, and I've done many.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=10320.0,10350.0"}]},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/annotation_set/451","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Annotations [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/annotation_set/451/annotation/346","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eJohn Jay was one of the founding fathers of the United States. He also negotiated and signed the 1783 Treaty of Paris, served as the second Governor of New York, served as the first Chief Justice of the United States from 1789-1795, and was an important leader of the Federalist Party.\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=60.0,90.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/annotation_set/451/annotation/347","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eThe Atlanta College of Art, originally the Atlanta School of Art, was a private four-year art college in Atlanta, Georgia. Established in 1905, it was founded along with a museum that later became the High Museum of Art. It was absorbed by Savannah College of Art and Design in 2006.\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=180.0,210.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/annotation_set/451/annotation/348","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eA 4x5 camera is a large format camera that is simply made up of a place to put film, a place to put a lens, and a bellows between the two.\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=330.0,360.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/annotation_set/451/annotation/349","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eSaks Fifth Avenue is an American department store chain. Its main flagship store is located on Fifth Avenue in Midtown Manhattan, New York City.\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=360.0,390.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/annotation_set/451/annotation/350","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eThe High Museum of Art in Atlanta is a leading art museum in the Southeastern United States. Located on Peachtree Street in Midtown, the High is a division of the Woodruff Arts Center. It was founded in 1905 as the Atlanta Art Association and renamed after the High family donated their house as an exhibit space in 1926.\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=450.0,480.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/annotation_set/451/annotation/351","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eTests administered by the College Entrance Examination Board, now known as College Board, administrator of Scholastic Assessment Test or SAT.\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=570.0,600.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/annotation_set/451/annotation/352","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eSmith College is a private, independent women's liberal arts college opened in 1875 in Northampton, Massachusetts. \u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=600.0,630.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/annotation_set/451/annotation/353","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eColumbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons, now Columbia University Vagelos College of Physicians and Surgeons, is a graduate school of Columbia University in New York, and one of the most selective medical schools in the United States today.\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=720.0,750.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/annotation_set/451/annotation/354","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eColumbia University (officially Columbia University in the City of New York) is a private, Ivy League, research university in Upper Manhattan, New York City. It was established in 1754 as King's College and it is one of nine colonial colleges founded before the Declaration of Independence.\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=750.0,780.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/annotation_set/451/annotation/355","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eMerck and Co., founded in 1891, is headquartered in Kenilworth, New Jersey. It is one of the largest pharmaceutical companies in the world.\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=960.0,990.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/annotation_set/451/annotation/356","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eCoronary thrombosis is a blockage of the flow of blood to the heart, caused by a blood clot in a coronary artery.\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=1110.0,1140.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/annotation_set/451/annotation/357","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003e\u003cem\u003eThe\u003c/em\u003e \u003cem\u003eAtlanta Journal-Constitution\u003c/em\u003e (AJC) is the only major daily newspaper in the metropolitan area of Atlanta, Georgia, United States. In 1982, \u003cem\u003eThe Atlanta Journal \u003c/em\u003e(founded in 1883) combined staff with \u003cem\u003ethe Atlanta Constitution \u003c/em\u003e(founded in 1868) to become the \u003cem\u003eAtlanta Journal-Constitution\u003c/em\u003e. Today, it is Atlanta’s only major daily paper. \u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=1470.0,1500.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/annotation_set/451/annotation/358","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eHarvard University is a private Ivy League research university in Cambridge, Massachusetts. Established in 1636 and named for clergyman John Harvard (its first benefactor), its history, influence, and wealth have made it one of the world's most prestigious universities. Harvard is the United States' oldest institution of higher learning.\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=1530.0,1560.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/annotation_set/451/annotation/359","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eThe University of Exeter is a public research university in Exeter, Devon, South West England, United Kingdom.\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=1530.0,1560.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/annotation_set/451/annotation/360","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eA governess is a woman employed to teach children in a private household, similar to a Nanny, but with more of a teaching role.\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=1560.0,1590.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/annotation_set/451/annotation/361","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eThe Chastain Arts Center and Gallery, founded in 1968, is an educational facility that offers classes, workshops, and exhibits in a variety of creative mediums.\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=1860.0,1890.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/annotation_set/451/annotation/362","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003eMary Ellen Mark (1940-2015) was an American photographer known for her photojournalism / documentary photography, portraiture, and advertising photography.\u003c/p\u003e","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120#t=2310.0,2340.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/39434/file/111120/annotation_set/451/annotation/363","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\u003cp\u003ePrinceton University is a private Ivy League research university in Princeton, New Jersey. 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Anyway, [my sister] Phoebe was already well-established here, and wanted me to be more social. 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