{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/1z41r6nd4p/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Massell, Sam (1992-93)"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/082/original/TheBreman_SecondaryMark_Horizontal_Blue_Black.png?1713640889","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["1992-08-10 (creation)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["Audio"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eSam Massell interviewed by Ray Ann Kremer over the course of several dates in late 1992 and early 1993 in Atlanta, Georgia.\u003c/p\u003e (general)","\u003cp\u003eSamuel “Sam” A. Massell, Jr. was born in Atlanta, Georgia on August 26, 1927. His parents were Samuel A. Massell, Sr. and Florence Rubin Massell. Sam was married to Doris Middlebrooks Massell. Sam and Doris were the parents of three children: Melanie Jacobs, Cindy Massell and Steve Massell. Sam remarried after the death of Doris, to Sandra Gordy.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eDuring Sam’s childhood, his father was a partner in Massell Realty Company with brothers Benjamin Joseph Massell and Levi J. Massell. During the Great Depression, Sam’s father left real estate to establish a law practice. Sam attended Druid Hills grade school and high school. He earned a bachelor of commercial science degree at Georgia State University and an LLB degree from Atlanta Law School.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSam’s political career included serving on the City Council in Mountain Park, Georgia and on Atlanta’s Board of Aldermen (now City Council). From 1970 to 1974, he was Mayor of Atlanta, Georgia, having been elected as its first Jewish mayor. Prior to that, Sam had a career as a commercial realtor. After his tenure as Mayor, he operated a travel agency and was the founding president of the Buckhead Coalition.\u003c/p\u003e (bioghist)","\u003cp\u003eSam discusses his parents’ and his grandparents’ early history. His father Sam A. Massell, Sr. was born in Atlanta, Georgia after his paternal grandfather Raphael “Ralph” Massell” relocated from New York to Atlanta and started a wholesale grocery business. His mother Florence Rubin Massell was born in St. Louis, Missouri. His maternal grandmother Rebecca Brown Rubin immigrated from Russia and his maternal grandfather Sol Rubin was a native New Yorker who operated Rubins Department Store in Atlanta.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSam talked about his father’s careers: as secretary for the Atlanta Crackers, as a real estate developer until the Great Depression, and as an attorney. Sam tells about the Massell Realty Company, a real estate development business operated by his father and his uncles Ben and Levi Massell. Sam mentions his sister Shirley Solomons and his brother Howard Massell.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSam remembers living in the historic Druid Hills area of Atlanta during his childhood.  He recalls his years at Druid Hills grade school and high school and his childhood friends Sonny Held, Arthur Heyman, Bobby Brail, Donald Chait, Charlie Goldstein, Sig Guthman, and Walter Rogers. He talks about the Top Hat Club, a Jewish high school fraternity, playing on its basketball team, and editing its newspaper. He talks about his college years at University of Georgia and attending Emory University, Georgia State University, Atlanta Law School, Woodrow Wilson Law School, and Georgia Institute of Technology. He talks about his service in the United States Air Force following World War II.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSam talks about the events organized for youths in the Reform Jewish community to socialize together, such as Ballyhoo. Sam remembers attending High Holy Days services at The Temple and attending Passover seders conducted by his paternal grandfather. He talks about his wedding at The Temple and his wife Doris’ conversion to Judaism.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSam discusses race relations in Atlanta and its change from a majority white to majority black population. He explains how it affected politics in Atlanta and his electoral campaigns. He recalls civil rights leaders he knew in Atlanta, including Martin Luther King Jr., Stokely Carmichael, A. T. Walden,  and Leroy Johnson.  He discusses key events and issues he handled as Mayor of Atlanta, including the hippie movement, the garbage strike, and the MARTA referendum. He mentions the antisemitism he encountered in public office and while campaigning.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSam discusses his career as a commercial realtor, operating a travel agency, and his activities as the founding president of the Buckhead Coalition.\u003c/p\u003e (scope content)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Source Metadata URI"]},"value":{"en":["https://archivesspace.thebreman.org/repositories/2/archival_objects/28382"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eAll rights reserved. No part of this publication may be reproduced or transmitted in any form or by any means, electronic or mechanical, recorded by any information storage and retrieval system, without the express written consent of the William Breman Jewish Heritage Museum.\u003c/p\u003e"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eSam Massell interviewed by Ray Ann Kremer over the course of several dates in late 1992 and early 1993 in Atlanta, Georgia.\u003c/p\u003e","\u003cp\u003eSamuel “Sam” A. Massell, Jr. was born in Atlanta, Georgia on August 26, 1927. His parents were Samuel A. Massell, Sr. and Florence Rubin Massell. Sam was married to Doris Middlebrooks Massell. Sam and Doris were the parents of three children: Melanie Jacobs, Cindy Massell and Steve Massell. Sam remarried after the death of Doris, to Sandra Gordy.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eDuring Sam’s childhood, his father was a partner in Massell Realty Company with brothers Benjamin Joseph Massell and Levi J. Massell. During the Great Depression, Sam’s father left real estate to establish a law practice. Sam attended Druid Hills grade school and high school. He earned a bachelor of commercial science degree at Georgia State University and an LLB degree from Atlanta Law School.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSam’s political career included serving on the City Council in Mountain Park, Georgia and on Atlanta’s Board of Aldermen (now City Council). From 1970 to 1974, he was Mayor of Atlanta, Georgia, having been elected as its first Jewish mayor. Prior to that, Sam had a career as a commercial realtor. After his tenure as Mayor, he operated a travel agency and was the founding president of the Buckhead Coalition.\u003c/p\u003e","\u003cp\u003eSam discusses his parents’ and his grandparents’ early history. His father Sam A. Massell, Sr. was born in Atlanta, Georgia after his paternal grandfather Raphael “Ralph” Massell” relocated from New York to Atlanta and started a wholesale grocery business. His mother Florence Rubin Massell was born in St. Louis, Missouri. His maternal grandmother Rebecca Brown Rubin immigrated from Russia and his maternal grandfather Sol Rubin was a native New Yorker who operated Rubins Department Store in Atlanta.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSam talked about his father’s careers: as secretary for the Atlanta Crackers, as a real estate developer until the Great Depression, and as an attorney. Sam tells about the Massell Realty Company, a real estate development business operated by his father and his uncles Ben and Levi Massell. Sam mentions his sister Shirley Solomons and his brother Howard Massell.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSam remembers living in the historic Druid Hills area of Atlanta during his childhood.  He recalls his years at Druid Hills grade school and high school and his childhood friends Sonny Held, Arthur Heyman, Bobby Brail, Donald Chait, Charlie Goldstein, Sig Guthman, and Walter Rogers. He talks about the Top Hat Club, a Jewish high school fraternity, playing on its basketball team, and editing its newspaper. He talks about his college years at University of Georgia and attending Emory University, Georgia State University, Atlanta Law School, Woodrow Wilson Law School, and Georgia Institute of Technology. He talks about his service in the United States Air Force following World War II.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSam talks about the events organized for youths in the Reform Jewish community to socialize together, such as Ballyhoo. Sam remembers attending High Holy Days services at The Temple and attending Passover seders conducted by his paternal grandfather. He talks about his wedding at The Temple and his wife Doris’ conversion to Judaism.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSam discusses race relations in Atlanta and its change from a majority white to majority black population. He explains how it affected politics in Atlanta and his electoral campaigns. He recalls civil rights leaders he knew in Atlanta, including Martin Luther King Jr., Stokely Carmichael, A. T. Walden,  and Leroy Johnson.  He discusses key events and issues he handled as Mayor of Atlanta, including the hippie movement, the garbage strike, and the MARTA referendum. He mentions the antisemitism he encountered in public office and while campaigning.\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp\u003eSam discusses his career as a commercial realtor, operating a travel agency, and his activities as the founding president of the Buckhead Coalition.\u003c/p\u003e"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eAll rights reserved. No part of this publication may be reproduced or transmitted in any form or by any means, electronic or mechanical, recorded by any information storage and retrieval system, without the express written consent of the William Breman Jewish Heritage Museum.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["William Breman Jewish Heritage Museum"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["William Breman Jewish Heritage Museum"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/082/original/TheBreman_SecondaryMark_Horizontal_Blue_Black.png?1713640889","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/105/569/small/Sam_Massell.jpg?1619285736","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - Massell_Sam.mp3"]},"duration":15336.7249,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/105/569/small/Sam_Massell.jpg?1619285736","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-thebreman.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/105/569/original/Massell_Sam.mp3?1613560863","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mp3","duration":15336.7249,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Massell, Sam [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KREMER: Today is August 10, 1992. This is Ray Ann Kremer interviewing Sam\nMassell at his office for the Atlanta Jewish Oral History Collection sponsored\nby the American Jewish Committee, the National Council of Jewish Women and the\nAtlanta Jewish Federation. Mr. Massell, I'd like to go way back to the\nbeginning. Do you remember who came to this country in your family and where\nthey came from?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=0.0,30.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MASSELL: My father [Sam A. Massell Sr.] was born here in Atlanta [Georgia] but\nhis father [Raphael \"Ralph\" Massell] had came here from New York, I don't know\nthe date but he came here and went into the wholesale grocery business. They\nlived on Kennedy Street near downtown Atlanta. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=30.0,60.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"My mother [Florence Rubin\nMassell] was born in St. Louis [Missouri]. Her mother [Rebecca Brown Rubin] came\nfrom Russia. Her father [Solomon \"Sol\" Rubin] was born in New York, the son of a\nrabbi. I don't know where his father was born. They were in the department store\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=60.0,90.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"business. My grandfather [Sol Rubin], maternal grandfather, was a buyer at\nRich's in its early days. They only had a handful of buyers and [he] was very\nimportant to the operation. Subsequently, he opened his own department store\nnamed Rubins on Peachtree [Street] across from Macy's which was then Davison-Paxon.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=90.0,120.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KREMER: Can I go back a minute? What kind of rabbi was your grandfather in New\nYork? Do you know?\n\nMASSELL: No, Reform, but I don't know.\n\nKREMER: He came from Russia?\n\nMASSELL: No, my mother's mother came from Russia. My mother's father was born in\nNew York. His father was a rabbi but I don't know where he came from.\n\nKREMER: There weren't too many Reform rabbis ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=120.0,150.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"in those days. [unintelligible].\n\nMASSELL: I don't really know. My sister might know. Sherry Solomon is in\nSavannah and would probably know a lot more about my family, generally, than I\nor my brother. Let's see. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=150.0,180.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Father, either when he first got married or maybe as a\nbachelor, worked as secretary to the Atlanta Crackers, the forerunner of the\nAtlanta Braves. He also had a booking agency for entertainment, which was\ninteresting because I have a daughter who is in the entertainment field.\n\nKREMER: That was his business, a kind of entertainment ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=180.0,210.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"promoter?\n\nMASSELL: Yes, [he was] secretary to the Atlanta Crackers, in those early years,\nI think as a bachelor. When they got married, they first lived in a . . . they\nfirst lived I think in the old Imperial Hotel, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=210.0,240.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I know they spent some time there.\n\nKREMER: Do you know how they met?\n\nMASSELL: No. I know they spent some time living in the Imperial Hotel for a\nwhile but I don't know if it was before they got married. They didn't live\ntogether until they got married. Times have changed.\n\nKREMER: Did they go to college?\n\nMASSELL: She went to Miriam Webster in St. Louis [Missouri], ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=240.0,270.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I think it's in St.\nLouis. He went to Boys' High here in Atlanta and Atlanta Law School and became a\nlawyer. He went in with his brothers, Levi and Ben, and they formed the Massell\nRealty Company. They became the largest developers in the Southeast. When the\n[Great] Depression came, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=270.0,300.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"he left and went into full time practicing law. Ben\nwent back into real estate developing. They are all three deceased now.\n\nKREMER: What did Levi do?\n\nMASSELL: Levi went back into real estate, I think. He was the father of Charles\nand Lee Massell. Lee is still living here in Atlanta. Charlie is deceased.\n\nKREMER: What was their mother's name? Maybe we better ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=300.0,330.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"get a little family tree here.\n\nMASSELL: Mynnie [Simmons Massell Reitler] was her name. She was, I think, from\nNashville [Tennessee]. I'm not sure about that.\n\nKREMER: Ben married . . .\n\nMASSELL: Ben's first wife was named Fannie [Wolfson Massell]. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=330.0,360.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"My parents lived\nfirst in an apartment there on Piedmont across from Piedmont Park and moved . .\n. They lived in an apartment building on Piedmont Road across from Piedmont\nPark. They later moved to an apartment building on Peachtree Road, I mean on\nPonce de Leon Avenue right at Piedmont Avenue, which was called the Massellton\nApartments. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=360.0,390.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"They are still standing. They were one of the first modern apartment\nbuildings, fireproof, [with] garbage chutes, inside parking, and all kinds of\n\"modern\" conveniences.\n\nKREMER: Was that developed by the family?\n\nMASSELL: Yes, that's how it got the name.\n\nKREMER: How do you spell that?\n\nMASSELL: It was spelled ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=390.0,420.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"M-A-S-S-E-L-L-T-O-N. They just added on to it. I was\njust there for a month in the Massellton apartments.\n\nKREMER: You were born when?\n\nMASSELL: On August 26, 1927. We moved to Oakdale Road, 1280 Oakdale Road. There\nI lived for about 11 or 12 years, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=420.0,450.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"11 years.\n\nKREMER: Where is that?\n\nMASSELL: It's in Druid Hills down off North Decatur Road, between North Decatur\nRoad and Emory Road. It was the last block of Oakdale Road. It was in the\nDriving Miss Daisy community. We moved from there to Briarcliff ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=450.0,480.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Road, 1077\nBriarcliff Road, near The By Way. We were there for probably three, four, or\nfive years, then we moved to St. Charles Place, 1280 St. Charles Place. I lived\nthere another four or five years until I got married. Going back to the\nchildhood part, I attended Druid Hills ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=480.0,510.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"grade school and high school. I went to\nUniversity of Georgia and went into the [United States Army] Air Force[s]. I\nwent back to the University of Georgia, went to Georgia State University and\nthen Atlanta Law School. I left out Emory [University]. I went to Emory\n[University] before I went to the Air Force. I went to the University of Georgia\nfirst and then I transferred to Emory [University]. I went into the Air Force\nand then I went ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=510.0,540.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"back to the University of Georgia, and then Georgia State [University].\n\nKREMER: You got your degree from where?\n\nMASSELL: From Georgia State [University] I got a bachelor of commercial science\ndegree and I got my LLB degree from Atlanta Law School. Then from there, took\nsome courses at Georgia Tech and some at Woodrow Wilson Law School. I was in\nthere for a couple of semesters. I got ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=540.0,570.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"married in 1952. [unintelligible]. I have\nthree children. My first job was with, interestingly enough, was in the\nassociation management business which is what I'm doing now. It was with\nMarshall Mantler ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=570.0,600.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"often known as 'Buddy'. It was with the National Association of\nWomen's and Children's Apparel Salesmen [Guild] (NAWCAS), in charge of their\npublications. I went into real estate, with Allan-Grayson Realty for years,\nduring which time I got involved in the civic.\n\nKREMER: Before we start getting into all that, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=600.0,630.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"we've gotten this quick\nrun-through but now I want the story and a picture of what things were like.\nLet's go back to when you can really remember your young childhood, going to\nschool. Did you go to school with lots of Jewish kids or was it pretty mixed?\n\nMASSELL: There was an interesting experience, I think one that taught me a lot\nand helped me later in the political arena because it taught me a ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=630.0,660.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"sensitivity to\npeople who are from a different background. It was a county school but serving\nDruid Hills, which at that time was the Buckhead of yesteryear with a lot of\nvery wealthy families. Being a county school, it also had a school bus that went\nout to rural areas to pick up kids from very low-income families. Although it\nwasn't racially mixed ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=660.0,690.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"with standard operational education at that time . . .\nThere wasn't any racially mixed schools. It was mixed socially, economic[ally]\nand religious[ly] to a large degree. We had chauffeur-driven children coming up\nin limousines and we had barefoot kids in blue jeans from the school bus ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=690.0,720.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"mixed\ntogether. I don't know the percentage of Jewish children but I would guess maybe\nfive percent or ten percent. A lot of the wealthy community of the time lived in\nDruid Hills.\n\nKREMER: Who were some of the people in your class, names we might recognize?\n\nMASSELL: One of the Orkins was ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=720.0,750.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Shirley. Not Shirley. I'm not sure of the first\nname but one of the Orkin daughters. The Helds, his father [Charles Henry Held]\nwas president of Atlanta Envelope Company and Atlanta Envelope [unintelligible].\nArthur Heyman whose father [Herman Heyman] was a prominent lawyer. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=750.0,780.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Donald\nChait.. No, he didn't go there. He went to Boys' High.\n\nKREMER: How do you spell that?\n\nMASSELL: C-H-A-I-T. He went to Boys' High. He lived on Briarcliff Road.\n\nKREMER: We skipped from elementary school to high school.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=780.0,810.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MASSELL: It was all one.\n\nKREMER: You just kind of went through together.\n\nMASSELL: Yes, I spent a lot of years in the same building. The same building is\nstill standing incidentally.\n\nKREMER: Really? What is it now?\n\nMASSELL: Druid Hills. It's still Druid Hills but just a high school now. It's\nnot a grade school and a high school. We mixed . . . Charles Goldstein went to school with me. He was a ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=810.0,840.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"nephew of Abe Goldstein . . . who was very prominent in Atlanta . . . owner of Prior Tire Company. His son is still there. Charlie now lives in Miami. His son is still there. Charlie now lives in Miami.\n\nKREMER: Charlie who?\n\nMASSELL: Goldstein. The Jewish kids were pretty well-accepted. Charlie, in fact,\nwas voted most popular. He was president of the student body. I helped him. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=840.0,870.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He's\nthe one that . . . I'll give him the credit or the blame for getting me involved\nin politics. He asked me to paint his signs--he was running for student body\npresident--which I did. I was actually an introvert at that time. Maybe I had an\ninferiority complex as well, which I believe all [unintelligible]. How's that\nfor an egotistical ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=870.0,900.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"statement? An introvert can paint signs, which I did at home:\n'Goldstein for president'. He ran and he got elected. He looked at me and said,\n\"You're going to be the student body treasurer.\" The president appoints the\ntreasurer. I didn't want to be one. He insisted. He thought I was being coy. I\nthought he was being unreasonable because I'd already done him a favor. I didn't\nwant to do him another favor. He insisted, I did, and I liked it. I did ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=900.0,930.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"well at\nit. I think it gave me the confidence I needed. It changed my whole life. From\nthat day on I started getting very involved in student programs at school.\n\nKREMER: How old were you?\n\nMASSELL: I was 15 when I painted the signs, 16 when I became treasurer, and 16\nwhen I went off to University of Georgia. [I] became a big man on campus\nbecause: one, he had instilled this ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=930.0,960.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"initiative or whatever; and two, I have to\nadmit that most of the able bodied men were off to war then.\n\nKREMER: What year was this?\n\nMASSELL: That was 1944, summer of 1944, when I went to [University of] Georgia.\nLater I went into service, too.\n\nKREMER: You could go to [University of] Georgia because you were so young and\ndidn't go in the army right away?\n\nMASSELL: That's right, I wasn't old enough. I was 16. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=960.0,990.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Then I went into the service.\n\nKREMER: What was University of Georgia like when you went? Were there mostly\nwomen in the student body?\n\nMASSELL: Yes, mostly women. In fact, I don't know how much you want in the way\nof anecdotes.\n\nKREMER: We want them all.\n\nMASSELL: We had, in our fraternity . . . Most fraternities were closed because\nthe men were off at war. Our fraternity, Phi Epson Pi . . .\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=990.0,1020.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KREMER: . . . Phi Epsilon Pi.\n\nMASSELL: . . . Phi Epsilon Pi, which later became part of ZBT. It was still open\nbut had gotten down to one active [member] and he lived over a store in downtown\nAthens. He initiated ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=1020.0,1050.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"three of us and he pledged three of us. Sonny Held was one\nof them and Bobby Brail.\n\nKREMER: Held is H-E-L-D.\n\nMASSELL: Yes, and Brail is B-R-A-I-L. Bobby also went to Druid Hills. He lived\nin the Emory area where we lived. Bobby and Sonny and I pledged Phi Ep[silon\nPi]. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=1050.0,1080.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The embarrassing part about this was this was my first political coup\nbecause the one active flunked out of school. The alumni in Atlanta had to rush\nup there to initiate the three of us otherwise there wouldn't be any fraternity\nchapter, and one of us had to be president. I didn't need but one more vote. I\nhad my own, you see. I got another friend, who is not Jewish ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=1080.0,1110.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and not in the\nfraternity, [who] worked on the other two and got me a vote. I became president\nof my college fraternity as a first-quarter freshman. Sounds impressive until\nyou realize that I only needed one more vote. Only one vote to do it. History of\ninvolvement, very active.\n\nKREMER: You were only ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=1110.0,1140.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"in University of Georgia that year?\n\nMASSELL: Yes. I went back after the service for another year.\n\nKREMER: You left University of Georgia and you went into the service?\n\nMASSELL: No, I left [University of] Georgia and went to Emory.\n\nKREMER: Why?\n\nMASSELL: I got so involved at [University of] Georgia that the classes were\ninterfering with my extra-curricular activities. I was business manager at the\nliterary magazine at [University of] Georgia. I was president of the fraternity.\nI was member of the ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=1140.0,1170.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"fraternity council. I was an officer in half a dozen\ndifferent organizations. I was very active on campus. I was not doing well in my\nstudies. I decided that the only way to do it was cold turkey. I quit and left\nand moved to Emory. I transferred to Emory. For a year, I didn't do anything but\ngo to class, go home, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=1170.0,1200.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"study, and go to bed. I did that every single day. I\ndidn't join any organizations. I didn't go to any meetings. I just, cold turkey,\ncut myself off from extracurricular activities.\n\nKREMER: Were you real unhappy?\n\nMASSELL: I didn't like it. After I went in the service I went right back to\nGeorgia. After I came out of service I was anxious to get back to things.\n\nKREMER: Surely in both of these places you met a lot of people throughout the\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=1200.0,1230.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"city that, I'm sure, have been wonderful contacts through the years.\n\nMASSELL: Yes, like I said, I went to five different colleges. It looks like\nnobody wanted me but I was really building a political base. That's not true.\nI'm just kidding you. Yes, I met a lot of people and got involved and active.\n\nKREMER: Let's go back again to your childhood. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=1230.0,1260.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You said you were real shy.\n\nMASSELL: Yes, I had two friends. One of those went to reform school.\n\nKREMER: Reform school from Druid Hills in elementary school?\n\nMASSELL: Probably, I can't think of what year that was.\n\nKREMER: What was that friend's name?\n\nMASSELL: I don't even remember. I don't remember what he was arrested for,\nstealing or something.\n\nKREMER: Was this a ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=1260.0,1290.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"friend bused in from the county or somebody from Druid Hills?\n\nMASSELL: He lived up off of Briarcliff Road but I don't remember if it was a\nfarm house. That was open area back in those days.\n\nKREMER: Who was your other friend?\n\nMASSELL: The other one was Walter Rogers. He is now deceased. It's funny I went\non a radio show and ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=1290.0,1320.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"[unintelligible] in St. Louis. My sister called me up. She\nheard me on the radio show. I enjoyed life but I didn't think I was . . . I\ndidn't think any of the young girls at the time would accept a date if I asked\nthem, so I never asked them.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=1320.0,1350.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KREMER: Were you friendly with any of the Jewish kids? Did you go to temple?\n\nMASSELL: Charlie Goldstein was confirmed at The Temple and a lot of those kids I\nmentioned . . . Sonny Held and Jack Brail. I was running with the Jewish kids\nand I went to some Jewish organizations. We had a Jewish ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=1350.0,1380.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"fraternity at the high\nschool called the Top Hat Club which was not just for Druid Hills. There weren't\nenough Jewish kids there to support one but it was from any of the high schools\nin Atlanta. Although the non-Jewish kids had their fraternities, one at each school.\n\nKREMER: What was the one at your school?\n\nMASSELL: I don't remember the name of it. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=1380.0,1410.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The Top Hat Club was a good outfit.\n\nKREMER: Was it just Reform or was it for anybody Jewish.\n\nMASSELL: Just Reform. There were AZA chapters in Atlanta. They weren't\nfraternities but they were considered parallels. In fact, we had a basketball\nteam, the Top Hat Club did. [It] played AZA league sometimes in basketball and\nstuff like that.\n\nKREMER: Where did you play?\n\nMASSELL: In the old Jewish [Educational] Alliance, I guess it was called, down\non Washington Street ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=1410.0,1440.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"or Capitol Avenue, or somewhere in that area. We played\nother teams, too. We played Druid Hills B team once at Druid Hills. We got beat\ntotally but we had nice uniforms.\n\nKREMER: Who sponsored the Top Hat Club? Who got the uniforms?\n\nMASSELL: It was . . . We did it on our own. We paid dues and everything. I\nremember something . . .\n\nKREMER: Did you have adult advisors?\n\nMASSELL: No, we really didn't. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=1440.0,1470.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I do remember two things, one is an anecdote\nwhich I don't think I ought to tell but one was . . .\n\nKREMER: Why not?\n\nMASSELL: Just embarrassed. It would embarrass me. I'll tell the story and you\ncan decide not to use it but I was editor of the paper. The Top Hat Club had a\nlittle newspaper that they put out. Sonny Held, who was a friend of mine, a\nneighbor, and a ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=1470.0,1500.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"classmate, was the treasurer. He didn't do his job. He wasn't\nreally that interested. Every meeting he'd have another excuse as to why he\ndidn't have the records up to date. The bylaws say that what you do when\nsomebody doesn't do their job. You impeach him. We didn't, as kids, have any\ninkling that the word impeachment was a ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=1500.0,1530.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"negative connotation. So [we] impeached\nhim. As editor of the newspaper, I put it in the headline. That was the story of\nthe week: \"Held impeached as treasurer.\" That sounds pretty bad. It sounds\ncriminal. Poor guy. He was my friend. I didn't mean anything in the world by it.\nHis father [Charles Held], who just lived a few doors from us as I mentioned\nearlier, was president of the Atlanta Envelope Company. He was ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=1530.0,1560.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"smart enough to\nfigure out some place we violated the postal regulations for the amount of white\nspace around the stamp or something. He had them all destroyed at the post\noffice and they never went out, which I don't blame him. I would do the same\nthing for my son. I would never have written it if I had half a brain and had\nknown that it had such a negative connotation. Sonny now lives in Nashville,\nTennessee. I don't see him ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=1560.0,1590.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"very much, but we were never enemies. I'll admit our billy goat, we\nhad a billy goat at our home and he got loose occasionally and would go down to\nthe Held's home and eat Mr. Held's orchids that he raised. That caused some\nirritation and aggravation. The other thing I was going to tell you [is] another\nstory about the Top Hat Club that really meant something to me. I told you\nbefore about Druid Hills mixing with those ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=1590.0,1620.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"less fortunate, those with less\nincome, and those with much less materialistic [unintelligible]. It was very\nmeaningful to me. I really believe it helped me better understand the plight of\nblacks in a mixed society. The other reference that I wanted to mention is in\nthe Top Hat Club we did have an annual banquet where we had an ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=1620.0,1650.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"adult speaker.\nOne year we had a doctor named, Ginsberg, he had written a book called Barbed\nWire Surgeon.\n\nKREMER: His name was not Ginsberg, but I know who you mean. I read the book.\n\nMASSELL: Great. I had a copy and lost it. I had an ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=1650.0,1680.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"autographed copy and lost it.\n\nKREMER: That must be valuable. It's out of print.\n\nMASSELL: He's deceased. Greenberg or Greenbaum was our speaker. The theme of his\ntalk . . . I have to confess that the sentiment generally among most of or many\nof the ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=1680.0,1710.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Reform Jews at that period of my life were . . . I won't say they\nresented being Jewish but were uneasy about being Jewish, maybe were embarrassed\nby it or resentment. There were many of them that wished they were not Jewish.\n\nKREMER: Did your family feel that way?\n\nMASSELL: I don't think my ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=1710.0,1740.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"family ever felt that way. I never heard anything that\nwould indicate that. I had friends who talked about it in high school about\nchanging their names or doing this or doing that to try to assimilate more. The\ndoctor addressed our banquet and was telling how ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=1740.0,1770.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"because he was Jewish he had to\nwork twice as hard. He had to work twice as hard to get in medical school\nbecause they had quotas and everything. When he got in he had to work twice as\nhard to get decent grades. He had to work twice as hard to set up an office. He\nbuilt some apartments. I remember, he was the first one . . . Many of them\nduring the war when apartments were so hard to get they would restrict . . . no\nchildren, no dogs, no this. He said you couldn't live there unless ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=1770.0,1800.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"you had\nchildren. They were right off Northside Drive near the Atlanta Envelope Company,\nright in that area there. He made the observation that everything he did was\nharder to do whether it was to get a loan for these apartments or whether it was\nto get a publisher for his book or whatever, which he said ended up just making\nhim that much better. He was a better doctor than any of the others. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=1800.0,1830.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He was a\nbetter developer. He was a better author or writer because he had to work harder\nto do it. It meant a lot to me at the time. It made me think it was all\nworthwhile. It was fine to pay the price that you will benefit from that price.\nTop Hat Club.\n\nKREMER: He was just your invited guest speaker at the club. That's so\ninteresting because his wife [Hanna Kaunitz Weinstein Entell] has been\ninterviewed in this project and so we did hear ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=1830.0,1860.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"all about him.\n\nMASSELL: He impressed me with his thoughts along that line. Top Hat Club\n[unintelligible]. I'll tell you something that was big in the Jewish community,\nin the social life for that era, were a series of cotillion clubs. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=1860.0,1890.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There ought\nto be a whole chapter on this somewhere. The one in Atlanta was called the\nBallyhoo Club.\n\nKREMER: How do you spell that?\n\nMASSELL: B-A-L-L-Y-H-O-O. One word. There was one in Columbus, Georgia. It may\nhave been called the Phoenix Club or the ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=1890.0,1920.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Falcons Club. There's one in Birmingham\n[Alabama]. There's one in another city in Alabama.\n\nKREMER: Montgomery?\n\nMASSELL: Montgomery, that was it. One of them was called the Jubilee Club. I\nthink that was in, that was either Birmingham or Montgomery. These four or five\nclubs, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=1920.0,1950.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"cotillion clubs, were organizations of Reform Jews aged 16 to 20. I'm\nreally guessing as to the age. The Ballyhoo Club, for instance, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=1950.0,1980.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"had a series of\nsocial events every Christmas. One of the others had it every Thanksgiving.\nAnother one had it every Fourth of July. Another one had it Labor Day. I don't\nknow which was which. Each one would invite all the kids from the others. When\nthe Ballyhoo Club around the Christmas holiday season . . . When it held it's\nevents in Atlanta, we'd send out invitations to all the kids who belonged to the\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=1980.0,2010.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jubilee Club and the Falcon Club and all the others in those other cities.\nThey'd come in droves. The Ballyhoo Club would have a series of three days of\nevents. We'd have a fashion show for the girls and a tea that maybe Rich's would\nsponsor. We'd have a stag show for the guys with beer and lots of\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=2010.0,2040.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"rowdiness and maybe a striptease or something. We'd have a dance one\nnight. We'd have a formal dance another night. We'd have a costume ball one\nnight with everybody in costumes. It was a big event. We'd put out a program.\nWe'd sell our ads. We'd charge fees for the local people. The out of town people\ndidn't pay anything.\n\nKREMER: Did they stay with people in town?\n\nMASSELL: A lot of them would stay with friends ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=2040.0,2070.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and with other members of\nBallyhoo or whatever. Some might stay at hotels. You would have dates and late\ndates and late, late dates. I don't know if kids do that today or not. You'd\nseriously have a date for the dance, then at nine or ten o'clock you'd have a\nlate date that picked you up at the hotel, your girlfriend's house, or wherever\nyou were staying. Maybe midnight you'd have a late, late date. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=2070.0,2100.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There was,\nincidentally, the Ballyhoo Club . . . As far as I know, they've all gone out of\nexistence. The Ballyhoo Club probably lasted 15 years.\n\nKREMER: From what years would those be?\n\nMASSELL: It seems like it ended . . . I was involved in it in the late 1940's.\nIt probably ended about, I'm purely guessing, early ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=2100.0,2130.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"1950's. It started in the\n1930's. I remember Alex Dittler and the Dittler Brothers.\n\nKREMER: D-I-T-T-L-E-R?\n\nMASSELL: Yes. His daughter was . . . Elice . . .\n\nKREMER: Haverty?\n\nMASSELL: Elice Shlesinger Haverty. Yes. He was ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=2130.0,2160.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"big time in the Ballyhoo Club I\nremember. Tell you about the Ballyhoo Club . . . We put out a real neat program,\nabout the size of a magazine, in which we sold ads and had the program. One year\nI was in charge of the program. One year I was president, but one year I was in\ncharge of the program. The Allan-Grayson Realty Company which was owned ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=2160.0,2190.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"by\nSam[uel A.] Goldberg--who was the father of Joel Goldberg who was a friend of\nmine and later a classmate at University of Georgia, and where I later went to\nwork when I was in commercial real estate--had the back cover. I'm going to skip\nto something else and tell you and I'll come back. When I was mayor, one time I\nwas interviewed by some ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=2190.0,2220.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"publication. They said, \"Had you planned this political\ncareer?\" I was in a number of different offices for a total of 22 years. I said,\n\"No, I really hadn't planned it. It just happened to come as opportunities\npresented themselves.\" This was in print and Sig Guthman, who was another friend\nwho was very active in the Ballyhoo Club and probably president one year . . .\nSig, who was related to Sonny Held who was ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=2220.0,2250.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"working at Atlanta Envelope . . . Sig sent me a letter down at city\nhall and said, \"Hell, you didn't plan for it.\" On the magazine, on the back\ncover of the Ballyhoo Magazine which I had done as a teenager, with this full\npage Allan-Grayson Realty Company ad, I had cut out a little corner and in print\nit said, \"Massell for Mayor.\" I had done this as a joke. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=2250.0,2280.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Intuition or something.\n\nKREMER: That's amazing that Sig still had it.\n\nMASSELL: Yes, Sig still had it. I've got one now but I don't have it at home. I\ngave all my stuff to the historical society.\n\nKREMER: The Atlanta Historical Society.\n\nMASSELL: Yes, they're going through all that now. It's probably still over there.\n\nKREMER: Are they going to keep it or copy it?\n\nMASSELL: Yes.\n\nKREMER: They're going to copy it.\n\nMASSELL: The magazine was filled with all kinds of ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=2280.0,2310.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"comical stuff. Some of it the\nadults didn't think it was too comical. My brother was the president a few years\nlater. I remember one of his jokes was to give away a car at the stag, an\nautomobile to the winner. It was a car they bought for $50. It would only start.\nIt wouldn't run. The poor guy had to get rid of it. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=2310.0,2340.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He had it. It was his. The\nBallyhoo Club, the Jubilee, the Falcon, and whatever the name of the other one,\nthey were a real important part of the social life of the Jewish community, the\nReform Jews anyway, in those years.\n\nKREMER: It's probably a way for a lot of people who are Jews to meet Jewish\npeople and eventually marry them.\n\nMASSELL: Yes, very definitely. A lot of them made lifelong relations through their friendships, or ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=2340.0,2370.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"marriage, or both.\n\nKREMER: Those are good stories. That's what we're looking for. Tell me, were you\nthe oldest of the children?\n\nMASSELL: No, I have a sister who's about four years older and I have a brother\nwho's four years younger.\n\nKREMER: What is her name?\n\nMASSELL: My sister is Shirley Solomons. She's married to Phillip Solomons who's\nrelated to the Daisy of \"Driving Miss Daisy\" . . . ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=2370.0,2400.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The Uhry . . . who wrote the story. They live in Savannah, Georgia, and have for a long number of years.\nMy brother, Howard [Massell], lives in [unintelligible].\n\nKREMER: [When] you were growing up in elementary school, was your family\nsomewhat observant? How did you celebrate Jewish holidays at home or did you?\nDid you have a seder?\n\nMASSELL: Yes, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=2400.0,2430.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"we did, but not at my home. It was at my grandfather's home, my\npaternal grandfather [Raphael \"Ralph\" M. Massell]. He was very good . . . He had\na good voice and he would sing the service and it sounded like [unintelligible].\n\nKREMER: Was he Reform?\n\nMASSELL: He was Reform, yes. It was a Reform-type service. It wasn't . . . ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=2430.0,2460.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the\nobservation of the High Holy Days and we went to the services at The Temple. My\nparents were members of The Temple before me. I'm not sure if they were married\nin The Temple. I was. I don't know if they were ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=2460.0,2490.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"married in the original Temple\nbut I think they were married in The Temple.\n\nKREMER: Your family also belonged to the Standard Club.\n\nMASSELL: Yes.\n\nKREMER: Did your grandparents?\n\nMASSELL: No. They might have when it was in Avondale. Actually it had a\ndifferent name. The forerunner was called . . . It became the Standard Club when\nit moved to Ponce de Leon [Avenue]. I think maybe they did but I'm ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=2490.0,2520.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"not sure.\n\nKREMER: Did you run across any prejudice when you were young?\n\nMASSELL: Along the way. One that comes to mind ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=2520.0,2550.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that's humorous in reflection but\nto me it wasn't when I was that young. Maybe it will remind me of some during\nother periods. When I ran for my first political office which was the City\nCouncil of Mountain Park [unintelligible]. Incidentally, later if you remind me\nI can also give you a biography with details ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=2550.0,2580.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and some of these dates. Mountain\nPark is a little incorporated city up in North Fulton County, which like the\ncity of Atlanta, has powers from the state, and has a one-man police force. It\nhas potholes and garbage problems, the same things that major cities have.\n\nKREMER: Did you live there?\n\nMASSELL: No, it was unique. [unintelligible] has deemed it the only ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=2580.0,2610.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"city in the\nUnited States where you can vote and hold office and not have legal residence\nthere. It was for property owners. Only property, today, would be\nunconstitutional, I'm sure. If you owned property, you could go in and hold\noffice. As a bachelor, I had bought a little bachelor pad up there, a little\ncabin. My brother and I bought it together, in fact. We were busy building. I\ngot actively involved and interested ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=2610.0,2640.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"in this city and went to some City Council\nmeetings. The city fathers--or the powerbrokers, I guess you'd call them--asked\nme if I would run for office. They were getting ready to have an election. They\ninvited me or asked me to run for City Council. I said, \"Fine, I'd like that\nvery much.\" I decided if I was going to run I was going to put on a campaign. I\nwas up at the clerk's ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=2640.0,2670.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"home. The clerk worked in Atlanta but lived [unintelligible]. I went up there one night with my girlfriend who is now my\nwife, Doris, who is not Jewish incidentally. She converted after we were married\nby Rabbi [Jacob] Rothschild. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=2670.0,2700.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"She went up there with me one night. We copied down\nthe list of registered voters. We went so I could send them out a letter because\nI was going to campaign. Nobody else really had a number for it. The clerk, Inez\nLogue, said, \"Sam, you don't have a chance.\" I said, \"Why?\" \"They found out\nyou're Jewish.\" I said, \"Who found out?\" ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=2700.0,2730.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/92","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"She named the guys who had asked me to\nrun, Charlie Johnson and Lee Wolfe, who is not Jewish, and I don't remember who\nthe third one was. I said, \"I'm surprised they didn't know I was Jewish.\" It\nhadn't been a secret. I've lived right here in Atlanta just 45 minutes away. I\nwent to them and I asked them, \"I've heard ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=2730.0,2760.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/93","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"you've changed your mind about\nsupporting me.\" They said, \"That's right. We found out you're Jewish.\" Instead\nof supporting me, they opposed me. I lost the election but it was a moral\nvictory. I was only in my early twenties. I'd only owned the cabin for six\nmonths or less. They had eight people running. The way they elect there, the top\nfive were elected. I came in sixth. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=2760.0,2790.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/94","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It was a moral victory. I stayed active. It\nwasn't long until one of the five sold his property and moved to Florida. The\nother four elected me to fill the vacancy.\n\nKREMER: You were such a good sport about it. I could see you telling the story,\nyou're not exhibiting anger. You stayed active. How did you feel at the time?\n\nMASSELL: I felt they were shortsighted. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=2790.0,2820.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/95","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I felt like they misunderstood or had a\nfalse sense of values. I was somebody who had something to offer. My being\nJewish had nothing to do with it either pro or con. Incidentally, it wasn't too\nmany months after that that my cabin mysteriously burned to the ground. I don't\nknow. I have no way of knowing ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=2820.0,2850.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/96","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"what caused that to happen.\n\nKREMER: You didn't feel anger towards those three men?\n\nMASSELL: No, I really didn't. It's just like I explained it. We could spend a\nlot of time talking about what is prejudice and what it demonstrates. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=2850.0,2880.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/97","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I feel\nsorry for the person who is prejudiced because they're losing as much as I'm\nlosing. Life's too short for them or for me. That was one of my early brushes\nwith it.\n\nKREMER: Obviously . . .\n\nMASSELL: I had another one. I remember one when I was in the army which was\n[unintelligible]. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=2880.0,2910.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/98","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"When I went in the service, the dog tags that you wore were\nstamped with your name, serial number, and your religious preference. They had\nan \"H\", I think, if you were Jewish, for Hebrew I guess. I don't remember what\nthe others were . . . \"C\" for Christian maybe or \"G\" for gentile. I really don't\nknow . . . \"C\" for Catholic, I guess. They had made a mistake on mine. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=2910.0,2940.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/99","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You go\nthrough real fast and they stamp them out. They had put \"P\" for Protestant. It\ndidn't make any difference to me. I wasn't in the fighting war. I didn't feel I\nwas going to be killed and buried in an unknown grave. At the time it didn't\nreally make any difference. It didn't bother me. One time in the barracks there\nwas an argument going on between some of the guys. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=2940.0,2970.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/100","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I came up and was standing\nthere listening. I don't recall now all the details, but it had to do with\nsomething about Jews. One of my nice, good personal friends was in the argument.\nHe turned to me and said, \"Don't you agree, Sam?\" with this position that was\nantisemitic. I said, \"I can't give you an unbiased answer ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=2970.0,3000.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/101","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"because I'm Jewish.\"\nThey said, \"No, you're not. Come on, give us a real answer. We want to know what\nyou feel about this.\" They said, \"You went to school.\" I said, \"I'm Jewish. I'm\ngoing to be prejudiced. My feelings are going to be biased.\" They said, \"No,\nyou're not Jewish.\" I'd forgotten all about my dog tags. Damn, if one of them\ndidn't grab the dog tags to look at it. \"See, I told you he wasn't Jewish.\" I\ndon't think to this day that they believed that I was Jewish. It was a ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=3000.0,3030.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/102","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"funny\nposition to be in. I was trying to defend something innocently and be fair with\nthem because, being Jewish, I knew how I felt. There was another incident. I had\na cross burned in my yard during the mayoral campaign.\n\nKREMER: I would imagine you've had all kinds of letters and hate mail.\n\nMASSELL: Yes, a lot of hate mail. That goes with the territory. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=3030.0,3060.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/103","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That's people,\nreally hatred. What it does is it exaggerates the hatred for the inner person\nagainst, not necessarily you or me . . . they may not have even known me but\nwhatever power I had. The office is what they're angry with. They'll lash out at\nany limb they can hold, whether it's antisemitic attacks, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=3060.0,3090.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/104","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"liberalism, or\nwhatever. It was interesting. I saw the difference. I didn't realize it when I\nwas in office, but when I came out of office there was a dramatic change in\nattitudes with people who were real strong enemies and no longer cared. I don't\nthink they fell in love with me but they'd say hello when I went by. It wasn't\nme they were angry with. It was my office, my power, and ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=3090.0,3120.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/105","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"whatever actions I was\ntaking that they didn't like. Once I couldn't do that anymore, they didn't care.\n\nKREMER: Were they angry at you as just Sam Massell or were they angry at you\nbeing Jewish Sam Massell.\n\nMASSELL: No, I think they were angry mostly because I was doing something they\nthought was wrong because they thought it would adversely affect them. I was\ncampaigning for equal opportunities for blacks. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=3120.0,3150.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/106","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"They thought this would hurt\ntheir opportunities. They were very upset. They would be very upset if I was\nJewish, Protestant, or Catholic. My being Jewish, they could scream, \"You damn\nJew.\" Otherwise, they could scream, \"You nigger lover.\"\n\nKREMER: You didn't save those letters by any chance, did you? Did you give them\nto any ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=3150.0,3180.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/107","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"organizations?\n\nMASSELL: I don't know whatever happened to the hate letters. I used to read them\nall. It was interesting, one person . . .\n\nKREMER: It would be interesting to have that in the exhibit because that's kind\nof . . .\n\nMASSELL: There's one letter writer we caught because of the very distinct\ntyping. He had a very old typewriter. The letters were ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=3180.0,3210.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/108","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"filled with ink and it\nwas very noticeable. I used to get frequent letters from him threatening my\nlife, all anonymous letters. One day I get a letter, same guy. Immediately we\nspot it, that [he] was saying something nice to me and he signed it. He had seen\nme with my son at a wrestling match. He thought it was so nice how I was with\nhim even though I was mayor of the city and I was there as a normal person-type\nthing. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=3210.0,3240.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/109","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He was a lover of the wrestling matches. The FBI called him and he\nconfessed that he had written the other letters. He was an elderly man. We\ndecided he wasn't going to kill me, so we didn't charge him. I told him not to\nwrite me any more letters.\n\nKREMER: Going back again, we left you with your studying at Emory, and ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=3240.0,3270.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/110","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"then what happened?\n\nMASSELL: I went in the Air Force.\n\nKREMER: Did you do anything about your . . .\n\nMASSELL: No, I was drafted. It was an uneventful period. The war was just about\nover. When I was in, peace was declared. I went to this . . . I started at\nWichita Falls, Texas where I took my ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=3270.0,3300.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/111","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"basic training. I was able there, through\nsome source--I can't remember if it was USO or what--to meet with some Jewish families.\n\nKREMER: Even with the \"P\" on your dog tags they let you go to some Jewish\nholiday things.\n\nMASSELL: From there to Scott Field, Illinois where I taught school ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=3300.0,3330.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/112","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"in the\n[United States Army] Air Force, administrative school. The last, the other one,\nwas Scott Field . . . Lowry Field that's where I taught school. Then I went to\nScott Field, Illinois and I was discharged. It was like I said...\n\nKREMER: You're one of the few who went to Lowry that didn't want to stay in Denver.\n\nMASSELL: It was very nice. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=3330.0,3360.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/113","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I taught school. I had a good life there.\n\nKREMER: Had you met your wife already?\n\nMASSELL: No, I didn't meet her until I came back. I was going to Atlanta Law\nSchool. When I came back I went back up to [University of Georgia in] Athens.\n\nKREMER: How many more years did you have in Athens?\n\nMASSELL: I just went there, as I recall, one more year.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=3360.0,3390.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/114","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KREMER: You re-affiliated with the fraternity and got back into doing what?\n\nMASSELL: The fraternity was big then. I got active on campus again. I don't know\nwhat all. I liked University of Georgia. The social life was good. We had a\nDPhiE sorority there, a Jewish sorority. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=3390.0,3420.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/115","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We had parties with them.\n\nKREMER: There was one fraternity and one sorority?\n\nMASSELL: No. There was another. There were three fraternities and two\nsororities, STK . . .\n\nKREMER: STT.\n\nMASSELL: STT, that was the other sorority. That's the one that we partied with\nmore than DPhiE. They were the Reform as I recall. There were two other\nfraternities, AEPi, TEP.\n\nKREMER: Were they there the first time you went up there?\n\nMASSELL: Yes. No, they may have closed. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=3420.0,3450.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/116","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Almost everybody had closed. We were\ndown to one man. Many of the Jewish and non-Jewish fraternities were closed. The\nsororities were going strong but they wouldn't let me join that. I went . . . I\nleft Georgia. I don't recall exactly why I . . .\n\nKREMER: Just out of curiosity, did the boys from all Jewish fraternities relate\nto each other?\n\nMASSELL: No, very ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=3450.0,3480.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/117","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"competitive.\n\nKREMER: I find it so amazing.\n\nMASSELL: That's not all bad. There may be some phony reasons that are used to\nfind fault with the others but I think more likely it's one of esprit de corps\nwithin an organization to which each belongs. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=3480.0,3510.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/118","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The pride and competitiveness, you\nknow, \"We've got more trophies than you have, or we've got better sports than\nyou have, or we have better parties than you do.\" I don't see that as bad.\nProtestant ones do that, too. We were close ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=3510.0,3540.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/119","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to a lot of non-Jewish . . . the\nSigma Pi fraternity also had some non-Jews and later became all non-Jewish and\nlater closed up, but our chapter . . .\n\nKREMER: That was unusual in those days, wasn't it?\n\nMASSELL: Yes. The other Jewish fraternities were strictly Jewish, Orthodox or\nConservative. Ours was Reform and had some non-Jewish members. We had other\norganizations. I was an officer in a ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=3540.0,3570.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/120","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Greek, Kappa Beta Phi which was backwards\nPhi Beta Kappa. That's the way it operated. It was Phi Epsilon . . . Kappa Alpha\nwas PhiEpBeta. It was a combination of all three. [unintelligible].\n\nKREMER: It was like a combination of the in-group of three ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=3570.0,3600.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/121","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"fraternities who got\ntogether to socialize some more.\n\nMASSELL: Yes, that's exactly what it was. You had other organizations that were\neven broader-based like we had two literary societies at Athens. One was called\nPhi Kappa which was made up of fraternity men and the other was called\nDemosthenian which was made up of non-fraternity men. They were debating\nsocieties. They really acted big. After the meeting we'd pass out cigars. I was\ntreasurer, secretary once, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=3600.0,3630.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/122","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and had to give cigars to everybody who came in.\nThese 17-year olds smoking big old cigars.\n\nKREMER: Which one were you in?\n\nMASSELL: Phi Kappa.\n\nKREMER: You debated.\n\nMASSELL: When I came back to Atlanta, I don't remember exactly what motivated\nthat change. I don't recall. I went to work in my ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=3630.0,3660.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/123","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"dad's law office. For a while\nI was working in the daytime and going to two night schools. I was going to\nGeorgia State [University] and Atlanta Law School. One night they overlapped 30\nminutes. One week I'd be late to one and the next week, late at the other. It\nwas a full schedule. I kept going to school. I was not a good student in spite\nof the fact that I make a lot of references to ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=3660.0,3690.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/124","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"higher education. I went for a\nlong number of years and got all kinds of . . . In addition to the degrees I\nmentioned and going to two schools at one time, I also got certificates twice at\nGeorgia State. They had a two-year program in marketing that I took and got a\ncertificate, and a one-year program in real estate that I took. I kept going\nback to graduation. They finally changed the catalogue and said you couldn't do\nthat if you already had a degree. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=3690.0,3720.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/125","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I felt that I was not a good student. I did\nnot make good grades but I felt that I would get something by osmosis if I would\nshow up. I forced myself. I had enough discipline to force myself to go to\nschool on my own initiative. I don't want to claim that I was a good student, or\nmade good grades, or learned a lot, but I guess it helped.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=3720.0,3750.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/126","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KREMER: Did you take the bar [examination]?\n\nMASSELL: I took the bar but I failed it. That was in my freshman [year], first\nquarter. That was egotistical. I had already left this period of inferiority\ncomplex and was all powerful. I took it my first quarter and obviously failed\nit. Later, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=3750.0,3780.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/127","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I was preparing to take it again. My father and I had an argument.\nMore than an argument, we had a falling out. You go through those periods of\nkids thinking that they're smarter than their parents. All of a sudden my whole\nlife changed because I had a joint checking account, I had a big LaSalle\nautomobile, and a job. I had all these different things and all of a sudden I\ndidn't have any of those.\n\nKREMER: Were you working for your ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=3780.0,3810.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/128","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"father at the time?\n\nMASSELL: I was working for my father at the time.\n\nKREMER: Which business was that?\n\nMASSELL: That was in his law office. I was not a lawyer but I was what you'd\ncall a paralegal, today they call it that.\n\nKREMER: You had finished law school.\n\nMASSELL: Yes. I did finish it while I was there and I was going to take the bar\nagain and we had this falling out and separation. Although I was living at home\nand continued to live at home, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=3810.0,3840.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/129","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I was out on my own and had to ride the bus to\nfind me a job, which was good for me. The end result, incidentally, is that we\ngot back together and fortunately attained a good relationship. For a period of\nabout a year or two we had a very strained relationship.\n\nKREMER: You still lived at home?\n\nMASSELL: I still lived at home, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=3840.0,3870.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/130","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"but at that time, to spite him, I did not take\nthe bar again.\n\nKREMER: You never took the bar.\n\nMASSELL: Never took it. It's alright. I never missed it until one time. I'm\nskipping. Many years later after I came out of office, I was sued by some\nhoodlums, the ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=3870.0,3900.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/131","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Wolcoffs. They had moved to Atlanta and tried to strong-arm people\nin the vending machine business, bars, and different things. They already had a\nrecord in Chicago. They had bribed a rabbi while they were in jail for mail\nfraud. They got caught bribing a rabbi. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=3900.0,3930.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/132","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"While I was in office I ran them out of town.\n\nKREMER: How did you do that?\n\nMASSELL: I leaned on them publicly. They, incidentally, turned around and\nattacked my brother who was a playboy. He was a real [unintelligible] so that\ngot him a lot of adverse publicity. Bottom line . . .\n\nKREMER: This is the brother that moved to Florida?\n\nMASSELL: Yes. Bottom line is they ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=3930.0,3960.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/133","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"sued me after I came out of office for slander\nor defamation of character, or something like that. Their lawyer was F. Lee\nBailey who they paid $10,000--which back then was like $100,000 today--to come\nin and try this case. That's the only time I ever missed not being a lawyer. I\nlooked and I saw him come in the mornings just two or three minutes before the\ntrial, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=3960.0,3990.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/134","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"run through the depositions, and then try his case. I thought, \"Man,\nyou're getting $10,000 for that?\" As detail oriented as I am, I could be a\nmillionaire many times if I would have gone into the law business. We won the\ncase, incidentally. [Burton] Wolcoff is in jail for a very famous murder in\nMiami. He's serving time. He was really bad. He was in all kinds of things in ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=3990.0,4020.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/135","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Miami.\n\nKREMER: Was he really mafia?\n\nMASSELL: Junior mafia for Atlanta. The biggest thing in Atlanta that we had. In\nMiami, right outside of Wolfie's delicatessen, they had a bomb underneath his\ncar that they discovered. Somebody had put in a radio control and were across\nthe street. They were going to blow him up. He was in some kind of big scam with\nthe ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=4020.0,4050.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/136","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"stadium down there. He's serving big time now. The law practice . . . I went\ninstead to work for . . . Interesting little anecdote here, it's this Ballyhoo\nClub. It has senior advisors. You were asking before about the Top Hat Club, it\ndidn't. I was president of the Ballyhoo Club. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=4050.0,4080.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/137","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"At this meeting I held one day\nbefore the upcoming events, I had the chairmen of each committee there. I had\nthe chairman's adult advisor, Buddy Mantler--who I later went to work for--who\nwas the senior advisor for somebody who was there. What he did, he told me he\nwas impressed by the way I handled the meeting. I had little cards with what\neach person ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=4080.0,4110.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/138","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"was supposed to do, in order: one, two, three, four, and copies to\nfollow up for their files.\n\nKREMER: That's pretty amazing at such a young age.\n\nMASSELL: He liked that and asked me if I wanted to go to work for him because\nthat's when I just left my dad. So I did. I went to work for him for two years\nin charge of his publications even though I hadn't studied ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=4110.0,4140.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/139","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"journalism. I had\nbeen involved with publications at Georgia and with the Top Hat News. Buddy . .\n. another nice thing about Buddy, who's Jewish, incidentally . . .\n\nKREMER: How does he spell his last name?\n\nMASSELL: M-A-N-T-L-E-R. He had Mantlers in Florida. He may still have a house\nhere. He's retired. A good friend of his was Marvin Goldstein, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=4140.0,4170.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/140","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"who later became\n. . . Prior to that, he had been my orthodontist. I used to go in to see Buddy\nevery four, five, or six months and ask for a raise. He'd give me $50 and I'd go\nback out there. One time after two years I came in and I said, \"I'd like a\nraise.\" He said, \"No, instead of that I'm going to ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=4170.0,4200.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/141","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"fire you.\" I went into shock\nbecause I thought I had done a good job. He said, \"The reason I'm going to fire\nyou is because it's time to get out and make some real money. If you want to\nstay here I'll give you the raise and you can stay forever. You can get a big\nstar raise every year. It's time for you to get out and make some more money. I\nthink you ought to go in the real estate business.\" He was also very friendly\nwith Sam Goldberg, the man I mentioned earlier at the Allan-Grayson Realty\nCompany, whose son ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=4200.0,4230.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/142","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Joel Goldberg, went to the university with me.\n\nKREMER: That's Joel who went to work for Rich's?\n\nMASSELL: No.\n\nKREMER: Not that Joel? Different Joel.\n\nMASSELL: Different Joel who's now deceased. He got killed in an airplane crash\nin the service. His father is now deceased. He has a sister [Sandra Goldberg\nEpstein] that's married to Burt Epstein. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=4230.0,4260.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/143","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"She's very active at the Jewish home. I\nwas telling you about Buddy. He made me go in the real estate business. He\ncalled up Sam Goldberg and sent me over there. First he had me talk to ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=4260.0,4290.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/144","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Marvin\nGoldstein so Marvin could convince me. The three of them ganged up and made me\nleave from where I had my security and go to work on a commission basis. I was\nstill single.\n\nKREMER: How old were you?\n\nMASSELL: I was still single. I was in my twenties. I went to work there and did\nwell. I made good money. He was right. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=4290.0,4320.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/145","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I stayed there for 20 years until I\nbecame full-time, until I became mayor. When I was president of City Council I\nwas still at Allan-Grayson. It was a part-time job supposedly. When I became\nmayor, I sold my stock. I had a little stock in Allan-Grayson. I was the\nvice-president. Gave that up for city hall. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=4320.0,4350.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/146","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Now you have me.\n\nKREMER: We only have one part of you. I'm sort of trying to hold off getting to\nthe politics because I know that's a whole tape. Let's, at this point, find out.\nYou had met your wife at law school?\n\nMASSELL: She wasn't at law school but she was . . . I met her . . . Actually,\nanother girlfriend had jilted me and gone off to ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=4350.0,4380.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/147","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"marry someone else. I was in a\nstate of sadness.\n\nKREMER: Had you gone with that girl a long time? Was she someone from Atlanta\nyou knew?\n\nMASSELL: No. She just happened to be the girl of the moment. Donald Chait, this\nfriend of mine whose father was a dentist . . .\n\nKREMER: How do you spell Donald's last name?\n\nMASSELL: C-H-A-I-T. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=4380.0,4410.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/148","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He's practicing medicine. He's a physician. He and I went\nout that night and went to a little night club and at the facing table was\nDoris, my-bride-to-be.\n\nKREMER: What was her last name?\n\nMASSELL: Middlebrooks. She was from Hogansville, Georgia which is south of here,\n60 miles south. She was with her girlfriend and her girlfriend's ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=4410.0,4440.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/149","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"boyfriend who\nshe later married. Doris did not have a date. I flirted with her to no avail. I\nused all the tactics. I sent a bunch of candy to the other girl the next day,\nwhatever foolishness. We dated for a couple of years before we got married. That\nwas where we met.\n\nKREMER: How did your family . . . because it was more ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=4440.0,4470.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/150","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"unusual in those days to\nmarry someone who wasn't Jewish?\n\nMASSELL: My mother was not happy about it at all. In fact, she didn't go to the\nwedding. It was a small wedding. The rabbi started . . .\n\nKREMER: How did Doris' family feel?\n\nMASSELL: They didn't mind at all. They were rural people from a simple\nbackground. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=4470.0,4500.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/151","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"They really didn't know what a Jew was. If they ever had any adverse\nor negative feelings, I never knew of them. I don't believe . . . I think Doris\nwould have shared them with me. Fortunately, my mother and Doris got to be very\nclose in later years. She's been a very good wife and mother, friend, and\neverything else. My father ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=4500.0,4530.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/152","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"accepted it. I don't think he ever counseled me not\nto do so. One uncle, I remember, Monte Rubin, one of my mother's brothers who I\nrespected very highly and talked to from time to time for advice, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=4530.0,4560.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/153","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"counseled me.\nHe was single, incidentally, difficult to take advice from. He was not married\n[unintelligible]. We had a lot of differences not just religious differences,\nbut cultural background, educational background. Almost everything you could\nidentify was different. October 25 of this year ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=4560.0,4590.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/154","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"we will have been married 40\nyears. I have a lot of friends who married people who are ideal for them who've\nbeen divorced. I'm not saying that that makes it right or wrong, just that it's\nnot a science. [unintelligible]. My own philosophy is that we've got a lot of\nintermarriage in my family. My daughter is ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=4590.0,4620.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/155","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"going to get married September 2.\nShe's marrying a non-Jewish man. My son [Steve Massell] is married to a\nnon-Jewish girl. My uncle, not the one I talked to for advice but his brother\n[Ernst Rubin] married a non-Jewish girl.\n\nKREMER: Were your children raised Jewish?\n\nMASSELL: ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=4620.0,4650.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/156","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yes. They observe the rituals probably more than I do.\n\nKREMER: Are they raising their children Jewish?\n\nMASSELL: Only one of them is married right now. That child is only two years\nold, so I don't know how they are going to do that.\n\nKREMER: Did their spouse convert like your wife did?\n\nMASSELL: No. They ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=4650.0,4680.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/157","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"take courses in Judaism from a rabbi [unintelligible]. I think, my\nown philosophy is, contrary to what the Jewish community feels ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=4680.0,4710.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/158","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"generally, is\nthat I don't find it that damaging. Although it might decrease the number of\nJews, it might increase it if we have enough conversions. I don't know the\nhistory on that.\n\nKREMER: I could tell you, because there's been a lot of studies that we've done,\nthat we're losing more than we're gaining. The fear is that there won't be any\nJews in this country in another three generations.\n\nMASSELL: I'm not surprised. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=4710.0,4740.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/159","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The people who do it pay a price. My philosophy is\nif you're willing to pay that price, that's their decision.\n\nKREMER: The people who do what?\n\nMASSELL: That intermarry. It's difficult. When you ask about the children, it's\na difficult existence for the child. The decisions the child has to make ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=4740.0,4770.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/160","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and the\nconfrontations with society . . . I could go on about it but that's another\nwhole study.\n\nKREMER: You have a wedding coming up? . . . You got married.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=4770.0,4800.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/161","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MASSELL: Early married life . . . All of my married life, except maybe for the\nperiod in political life when I was a full-time government . . . our married\nlife, the social content of it has been 95 percent Jewish. I said my ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=4800.0,4830.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/162","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"wife\nconverted, so we consider her Jewish. Although I had non-Jewish friends from my\nvarious involvements with college, work, politics, and other interests, my\nfriends were Jewish and they were all very outgoing and ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=4830.0,4860.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/163","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"good to my wife. It\nsurprised me a little bit because I guess I felt like they went beyond the\ncontract. It was more than just a courtesy politeness. I don't know whether it\nwas just a southern trait of gentileness, politeness.\n\nKREMER: Were there many other intermarried couples ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=4860.0,4890.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/164","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"of your era?\n\nMASSELL: No, not many, so it wasn't that. It wasn't that these people were bosom\npals of mine that did it out of close friendship to me because mostly I talk\nabout the women. If I go down the names of Shirley Pulsar, Mitty Sharp and\nMaxine Sherer . . . I just go down one after another, all of them ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=4890.0,4920.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/165","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"took her in,\nmy wife. Maybe it's to her credit. Maybe she just had that good a personality.\nThey accepted her. That made a tremendous difference in my life. I'm not that\nsocially responsive. I like people but ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=4920.0,4950.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/166","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I'm not motivated by social events. If it\nhad been left to me I probably would have just lived within a small boundary.\nBecause of their involvement with her and she's anything but a climber, so she\ndidn't have . . . she wasn't out there ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=4950.0,4980.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/167","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"seeking position or recognition. They\nwere saying, \"Let's do this, let's do that.\" There was a great deal of that. She\nknows more people at the Standard Club than I do. She knows more people at The\nTemple than I do. She goes and meets with the girls. They have card games once a\nweek. They have tennis once a week. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=4980.0,5010.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/168","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"She's done this for 40 years. For a few\nyears there she worked in a travel agency.\n\nKREMER: You did the travel agency after you were finished being mayor?\n\nMASSELL: Yes.\n\nKREMER: How many years did you have that?\n\nMASSELL: For 13 or 14 years. We just sold that. Two of our . . . all three\nchildren worked there some. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=5010.0,5040.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/169","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"My son worked there for seven years, I guess. One\ndaughter for four years. The other one, on and off for the summers. Doris worked\nthere and I worked there. It was a family affair. I really don't know why I got\noff on this tangent so much except I think it's noteworthy, at least in this\ninstance . . . I don't know ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=5040.0,5070.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/170","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"if it's commonplace or not, but Reform Jewish women\nof Atlanta took in and accepted Doris, more than just accepted her but seemed to\nwant to make her life happier. Maybe that's part of why we face this problem\nthat we've got that the Jews are disappearing. Maybe they shouldn't be so nice\nto non-Jews.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=5070.0,5100.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/171","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KREMER: I think what happens is, once it's a fait accompli, they want to bring\nthem in, not push them away, which is probably the same attitude that they would\nhave towards your intermarried children. Hopefully they will send that two\nyear-old to Sunday school at The Temple and that sort of thing. Did you do ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=5100.0,5130.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/172","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"religious things at home? Did you celebrate the holidays?\n\nMASSELL: We still have a seder at home at Passover which I conduct rather\npoorly. My wife cooks the foods and holiday ritual. We have family that all\ncomes together and those who are in town she invites over to the house.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=5130.0,5160.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/173","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KREMER: You took over from your uncle who did it.\n\nMASSELL: My grandfather. We don't have a lot of . . . we've got mezuzahs on the\nentrances to our home. We have a ring with the [unintelligible] ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=5160.0,5190.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/174","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Israel that I\nwear from time to time, a few Jewish cufflinks. I used to wear cufflinks, gold\nmezuzah cufflinks. Gave some to the rabbi. One of the smartest political things\n[unintelligible]. I remember one of the trips I took to Israel was with a group\nof mayors. Louie Welch was Mayor of Houston, Texas, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=5190.0,5220.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/175","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"not Jewish. While he was\nover there he bought 15, maybe 20 mezuzahs and he brought them back for his\nJewish supporters. For the mayor to bring you a mezuzah from Israel, that was\nquite a selection, a good gift idea. I don't know if you say we . . . ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=5220.0,5250.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/176","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We weren't\nreal Jewish. We were Jewish. We never denied being Jewish. I had a Christmas\ntree when I was a child.\n\nKREMER: Did you have one for your children?\n\nMASSELL: Yes. They had a Christmas tree. We still exchange presents at Christmas\nto this day. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=5250.0,5280.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/177","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I guess when I was growing up almost all of my Jewish friends\nobserved Christmas. We gave gifts and cards. We don't send out a card that has\nreference to Christmas ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=5280.0,5310.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/178","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"as a religious holiday but we send something like happy\nholidays or something like that. That's a compromise, I guess.\n\nKREMER: Where did you live when you were first married?\n\nMASSELL: We've always lived within a couple miles of one place. We started out\non Adina Drive right off Lindbergh [Drive], ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=5310.0,5340.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/179","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"which was the lowest priced\napartment that you could get on the north side of Atlanta. We were both broke. I\nwas on a commission basis. She was working and supporting me. She was with Texas\nOil Company. She worked for about nine years, I think. She was working there\nwhen we got married. She continued working there for a couple of years until we\nhad our first child. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=5340.0,5370.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/180","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We had no money at all. We budgeted everything and went on\na straight cash basis. We finally saved up enough to buy a Muntz TV. We had\nborrowed our carpet from [unintelligible] and a sofa from Buddy Mantler. Most of\nthe furniture we had was some that she had from her apartment when she was\nsingle. We lived on Adina Drive. We lived there for ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=5370.0,5400.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/181","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"two or three years. Our\nfirst child came there. We moved. We bought a little house on Springdale Drive\njust about a mile from Adina Drive, off of Lindbergh Drive also. [We] stayed\nthere--I don't know how long--ten years or eight years, then we bought a big\nhome on Windgate off of the expressway about a mile from Springdale Drive, a\nmile and a half. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=5400.0,5430.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/182","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It's a six bedroom home. We stayed there 28 years. We just sold\nthat. We bought a little townhouse on Peachtree Road about a mile from Windgate.\nAll these in a certain circle. Now we have a two-bedroom townhouse.\n\nKREMER: I'm going to cut this off here and we'll take this up another day. Thank\nyou. Today is August ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=5430.0,5460.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/183","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"24, 1992. This is Ray Ann Kremer interviewing Sam Massell\nfor the Atlanta Jewish Oral History Project. This project is sponsored by the\nAmerican Jewish Committee, the Atlanta Jewish Federation, and the National\nCouncil of Jewish Women. This is tape two, side one. I reviewed the other tape.\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=5460.0,5490.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/184","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"One of the questions that came to mind before we get into politics . . . Because\nyou were in the real estate business, I was wondering if you had any\nobservations as to the growth of Atlanta and why it seems to have grown. Because\nof real estate, really, with that sort of focus in your time, from when you were\nyoung and what you observed.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=5490.0,5520.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/185","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MASSELL: We've been fortunate to have developers who had self-confidence and\ncreativity that helped provide brick and mortar for the growth of the community.\nIf you don't have the space, people don't come. The Massells were very involved\nin that during ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=5520.0,5550.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/186","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the early post-war era, 1940's and 1950's, when Ben Massell was\nthe only builder in Atlanta. Back before that--though I didn't witness it--in\nthe 1920's and 1930's, they were major developers also, Ben and ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=5550.0,5580.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/187","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sam, his\nbrother, and my father. They built a lot of apartments as well as warehouses and\nretail stores. Their office buildings started after World War II. Since then,\nAtlanta has seen a number of other local people like John Portman and Tommy\nCousins and Jim Cushman, people who are not Jewish.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=5580.0,5610.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/188","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KREMER: Can you tell me a little bit more about your uncle . . . uncles. There\nwere several of them in the building business together?\n\nMASSELL: My father and two of his brothers.\n\nKREMER: Your father also was an attorney.\n\nMASSELL: After the [Great] Depression, when they split up, yes. Then he began to\npractice law. Before that, the three brothers were together as developers.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=5610.0,5640.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/189","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KREMER: They all started out doing that together from their youth?\n\nMASSELL: My dad, at one time, was secretary to the Atlanta Crackers which was a\nforerunner to the Atlanta Braves.\n\nKREMER: Was your father the oldest? Maybe we ought to get the years they were born.\n\nMASSELL: No, I don't know the years they were born. He also had a 1ittle\nentertainment ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=5640.0,5670.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/190","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"brokerage, a booking agency, and their father had a grocery store.\nThey may have all worked in the grocery business at one time. That's as much as\nI know of their history.\n\nKREMER: At some point, when your father left, was the developing business\nalready going on? Were Levi and Ben already doing it?\n\nMASSELL: They all three went into the development business. That [Great]\nDepression came. They all three went ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=5670.0,5700.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/191","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"out of the development business. It was\nclosed up. It was terminated. It was ended. It was bankrupt. My father went into\nlaw and Ben went back into the development business. I'm not sure just what Levi\ndid then.\n\nKREMER: Did he stay in Atlanta?\n\nMASSELL: Yes. He didn't live much longer. I just don't recall the detaiIs.\n\nKREMER: Did he have children?\n\nMASSELL: Yes, Lee, who's still living in Atlanta and ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=5700.0,5730.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/192","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Charles, who is deceased.\n\nKREMER: Then your father had you . . .\n\nMASSELL: Three. Me, my brother, Howard, and my sister, Shirley.\n\nKREMER: The other brother had a daughter.\n\nMASSELL: Caroline, who married Simon Selig, and Ben Jr., his son. Both of those\nare deceased now.\n\nKREMER: Going back to the ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=5730.0,5760.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/193","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"development, you wouldn't have been aware of it really\nuntil you got back into it, when you went into it yourself . . . the period\nbetween, say, your father and you, between the Great Depression and when you got\ninto it. There must have been some growth between the Great Depression and when\nyou got into it. A lot actually.\n\nMASSELL: That's what I was explaining about the post-World War 11 era where they\nwere the largest . . . Ben, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=5760.0,5790.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/194","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"at that time, was the largest developer in Atlanta,\nmaybe in the Southeast.\n\nKREMER: When you were encouraged to go into the business by Buddy . . . How did\nyou spell his name again?\n\nMASSELL: M-A-N-T-L-E-R.\n\nKREMER: You didn't consider going in with your uncle?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=5790.0,5820.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/195","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MASSELL: No.\n\nKREMER: That was a different kind of thing?\n\nMASSELL: He was doing development and I went into brokerage, leasing.\n\nKREMER: You described the development through World War II. You mentioned it\ngoing on now. What is your view of the future of Atlanta? Here you are with the\nBuckhead Coalition.\n\nMASSELL: I think Atlanta's future is as bright ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=5820.0,5850.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/196","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"as its past has been in that\nthere's a lot of ambition here, leadership, and momentum. Put all that together\nand you have a pretty good future.\n\nKREMER: What about during the 1970's when supposedly [unintelligible] and now? [unintelligible]?\n\nMASSELL: Yes, we're in a recession 1ike the rest of the United States, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=5850.0,5880.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/197","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"but\neverything is relative. Unfortunately, maybe we got carried away with our\nprosperity and progress, did too much in development, and this caused the bust,\nas you called it, to hurt more than had it just been ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=5880.0,5910.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/198","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"a slower paced growth.\n\nKREMER: You made a comment before about how you needed to build so that people\nwould come and there was a space for them. To encourage it, sort of 'if you\nbuild it. they will come'.\n\nMASSELL: If they come . . . If you don't have a space, they sure won't come.\nLet's put it that way. When you have a product, you're in better shape than your\ncompetitors if they don't have a product. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=5910.0,5940.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/199","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Having space available is very\nimportant to the growth of any community.\n\nKREMER: It's that fine a balance . . .\n\nMASSELL: That's correct.\n\nKREMER: . . . which we all wish we knew. Any other observances about Atlanta and\nits real estate and growth?\n\nMASSELL: I don't know how far you want me to expand.\n\nKREMER: Just start.\n\nMASSELL: Atlanta is ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=5940.0,5970.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/200","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"fortunate in a number of ways that generates growth. Part of\nit is its geographical location. It's the center of the southeast. It's\nvehemence in transportation, particularly, what we are to air transportation\nwhere we have the first, second, or third busiest airport in the United States\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=5970.0,6000.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/201","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"year after year. We have a network of rail lines and highways. There's no\nboundary, no natural boundary that ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=6000.0,6030.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/202","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"deters growth in any direction like most\nmajor cities. There's no river, ocean, mountain, desert or anything else to stop\nthe growth, so it goes in all four directions.\n\nKREMER: You say that but I keep hearing complaints and comments that it's not\ngoing south.\n\nMASSELL: It can. I guess I should have said it can go in all four directions.\nThere's nothing to stop it. There is some growth to the south but not as much as\nwe have in the north. That's probably not unusual anywhere ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=6030.0,6060.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/203","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"in the country,\neither, that some directions are more popular than others.\n\nKREMER: Do you think there is a racial reason?\n\nMASSELL: No. The south side was 1ily white for years, and years, and years, and\nthere was no growth down there. Only the west side was black. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=6060.0,6090.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/204","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That's not the\nreason at all.\n\nKREMER: Do you think it's the airport?\n\nMASSELL: No. The airport generates some growth. It's just the income level is\nnot as high. Better growth started in the north. Better growth begets better\ngrowth. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=6090.0,6120.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/205","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Development follows a pattern. The other ways, taking to the east . . .\nPonce de Leon Avenue is a street that has never developed to what it should.\nIt's prominent. It's a major artery connecting Decatur and Atlanta, two cities.\nIt's a street that's a ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=6120.0,6150.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/206","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"United States highway. It's a wide thoroughfare that has\nhad a department store, Sears Roebuck, on it--a major building. It had a major\nhotel, the Briarcliff Hotel on Ponce de Leon Avenue and Highland Avenue. It led\nto Druid Hills which was a very prominent high-income community. It had the\nhandsome ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=6150.0,6180.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/207","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fox Theatre and Georgian Terrace Hotel. Yet, it's never developed. It's\na lower-income area and has not attracted development.\n\nKREMER: When you got into the business, the post-war boom had really pretty much\nhad happened. Where did ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=6180.0,6210.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/208","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"you come in? What was going on?\n\nMASSELL: New office buildings were being built. West Peachtree Street was being\nzoned for commercial use, prior to which it had been single family homes, some\nof which had turned into boarding houses or rooming houses. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=6210.0,6240.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/209","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The Peachtree Ridge\nwas being developed with low-rise office buildings. It's been a steady growth\never since I went into the business.\n\nKREMER: You commented that it was a wonderful opportunity for you, and although\nyou got pushed out of the other thing, that obviously was the thing to ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=6240.0,6270.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/210","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"do. What\ndo you think made you so good at it? Good salesman? Contacts?\n\nMASSELL: I worked hard. I do my homework in whatever I work at. I am--I\nguess--ambitious, energetic, and, hopefully, creative to some degree. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=6270.0,6300.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/211","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You put\nall that initiative together and it works for anybody.\n\nKREMER: You were doing well. You liked the business. Atlanta was growing. Why\ndid you give it up and go into politics? What got you started?\n\nMASSELL: Actually, my father loved politics. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=6300.0,6330.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/212","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"[He] encouraged me to be involved\nin civic and service work, and the community. He used to take me with him when\nhe used to visit with politicians during campaign periods. In fact, he edited a\nnewspaper as a hobby called Atlanta Democrat. He named me as an editor once. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=6330.0,6360.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/213","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I\nwould write a column or whatever. He went and he would involve me where he could.\n\nKREMER: Did he ever run for political office?\n\nMASSELL: No, in fact, it's quite interesting and amusing that he used to make\nthe observation that a Jew could not get elected citywide in Atlanta. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=6360.0,6390.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/214","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Finally,\nonce, I asked him, \"How do you know it? One has never run.\" Later I did run.\n\nKREMER: To know more about the newspaper, this was his newspaper? He published it?\n\nMASSELL: Yes, he published it. He found it. It was a hobby. It was a monthly\ncalled Atlanta Democrat.\n\nKREMER: What was its purpose?\n\nMASSELL: Dissemination of information regarding political happenings,\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=6390.0,6420.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/215","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"prognostications, and anything having to do with the political arena state-wide,\nbut mostly Atlanta.\n\nKREMER: What kind of circulation did it have?\n\nMASSELL: 1 don't recall, though I was in charge of circulation for a while. We\nwould roll them, label them, and take them to the post office.\n\nKREMER: Do you remember what it cost to get a newspaper?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=6420.0,6450.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/216","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MASSELL: No. I've got one set of them at home that 1 did not give to the\n[Atlanta] Historical Society.\n\nKREMER: They had advertising?\n\nMASSELL: They had advertising. I sold some ads for it. I remember he took some\ntrade for ads, so there were certain restaurants where we would eat. He would\ntrade out ads for food or something. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=6450.0,6480.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/217","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"My dad used to trade his law service, too,\nfor other things. That's where we got the billy goat I think I told you I had in\nmy yard. He would get involved. He never turned anybody down. Whatever they had\nthat they could pay with, he would accept.\n\nKREMER: Was he friendly with politicians?\n\nMASSELL: Yes, he was. He served on a lot of ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=6480.0,6510.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/218","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"groups. There was a political group\ncalled the [Atlanta] Tammany Club which he was a legal counsel to. He served on\ndifferent political groups and civic groups. He encouraged me to get involved in\nthe community. That's where my civic activities started. I think I told you\nbefore about my friend Charles Goldstein in Miami, getting ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=6510.0,6540.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/219","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"me really kicked off\nin high school.\n\nKREMER: Right, and also we heard about your first running for office up in the county.\n\nMASSELL: Yes, in Mountain Park, Georgia.\n\nKREMER: Mountain Park?\n\nMASSELL: Yes. Then, from that . . .\n\nKREMER: Tell me about some of the things you were involved in. You were ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=6540.0,6570.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/220","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"leasing\nin . . .\n\nMASSELL: In real estate . . .\n\nKREMER: You belonged to . . .\n\nMASSELL: In real estate circles?\n\nKREMER: Both. You said you were involved in the community.\n\nMASSELL: The real estate part . . . I was active in the real estate board,\nprogram chairman, and other positions. In fact, I was honored with what they\ncall the Alvin B. Cates trophy for the ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=6570.0,6600.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/221","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"outstanding deal of the year for three\ndifferent years for the state. I was also a charter member of the Atlanta Real\nEstate Board Million Dollar Club. I did well in real estate. I became what I\nbelieve was the world's only specialist in doctor's office buildings. [I]\ndeveloped, leased, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=6600.0,6630.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/222","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and managed those in Atlanta, Jacksonville, Florida and\nChattanooga, Tennessee. About that time is when I got involved full-time in the\npolitical arena, so I didn't go further. I was a consultant for a couple, one in\nBaltimore and one in Philadelphia. In real estate, 1 was very active ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=6630.0,6660.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/223","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and enjoyed\nit very much. My son's in it now and is going to do as well or better.\n\nKREMER: Who's he with?\n\nMASSELL: He's on his own. He was with Portman Barry [Investments] but in this\nrecession they've phased down and he's gone out on his own. He does commercial\nreal estate. During that time, I got real active in civic work. I was president\nof Muscular Dystrophy Association ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=6660.0,6690.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/224","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"of Fulton County. I was president of the\nAtlanta Humane Society and the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals,\nsame group. I was a charter member of the B'nai B'rith chapter, the Atlanta\nchapter, the Atlanta Lodge of B'nai B'rith. I was an officer in that. I was an\nofficer of American Jewish Committee, I think, vice-chairman of that. I think I\nwas treasurer of the ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=6690.0,6720.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/225","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Anti-Defamation League. I was vice-president of the\nMetropolitan Atlanta Council on Alcohol and Drugs. I was on the board of a\nnumber of different organizations. I was very active in civic, service work in\nthe community.\n\nKREMER: Weren't you in Kiwanis or Rotary or anything?\n\nMASSELL: No, I was not in a service club. I am now in the Buckhead ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=6720.0,6750.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/226","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Rotary Club.\nI was in the Jaycees. In fact , I received an award for the outstanding young\nman of the year in the Atlanta Jaycees and one of the five outstanding young men\nin the state.\n\nKREMER: What started happening in your life that started you thinking more\nseriously about ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=6750.0,6780.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/227","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"running?\n\nMASSELL: About running?\n\nKREMER: For anything. I don't know what your first . . .\n\nMASSELL: Each was an opportunity, timing. In fact, it's sort of funny. I was\nrelating this story to a young man who has just won an election to the state\nlegislature. His name is [Ron] Slotin. He was up here and I was telling him that\ntiming is ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=6780.0,6810.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/228","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"everything. He was running against an established candidate, an uphill\nbattle. It was funny because he left here and he called me the next day and he\nsaid, \"Just after I left you I turned on my car radio and heard that my opponent\nwas indicted.\" He says, \"Timing is everything.\" Indeed.\" When I ran for . . . My\nfirst office was city counselor in Mountain Park. What happened there, I told\nyou before. They came to me ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=6810.0,6840.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/229","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and asked me to run. It seemed like an opportunity.\nIt was something new and I was showing an interest. They weren't used to that.\nThat was an opportunity: timing. I got on the council. One day they sold their\nproperty, so that was timing or an opportunity. The next office was that of . .\n. as a member of the Atlanta City Executive Committee. That office no longer exists.\n\nKREMER: What was ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=6840.0,6870.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/230","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"it?\n\nMASSELL: The Atlanta City Executive Committee was the group--established by\nstate legislature, by charter--of the city that had the responsibility of\nmanaging the city elections, deciding when they would be, what the qualifying\nfee was to run for office, and what the rules were.\n\nKREMER: This was an appointed position.\n\nMASSELL: No. You were elected by wards only, not citywide. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=6870.0,6900.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/231","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Each ward . . .\nThey're now called districts. Back then we had eight wards in the city. Each\nward had two members elected to the Atlanta City Executive Committee which at\nthe time was named the Atlanta Democratic City Executive Committee. In fact, it\nwas named the White Democratic Executive Committee. Two blacks, or at least one\nblack, A. T. Walden, who was a friend of my ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=6900.0,6930.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/232","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"father's, a lawyer, wanted to run.\nHe tried to qualify to run for the City Executive Committee from his ward. They\nwouldn't qualify him because they said this was a White Executive Committee. He\ntook it to court and won the right to run. As a result, of the 16 members on the\nExecutive Committee, 15 of the 16 refused to run for re-election. They said,\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=6930.0,6960.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/233","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\"You can have it if we've got to let blacks in.\"\n\nKREMER: What year was this?\n\nMASSELL: I don't know, 35 or 40 years ago. I don't know. I'll have to think it\nthrough and look it up. I've got the dates.\n\nKREMER: What was the man's name again, the black man?\n\nMASSELL: A. T. Walden. He was an attorney. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=6960.0,6990.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/234","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He's since deceased. Fifteen of the\n16 refused to run. One woman, Margaret MacDougall decided that she would run for\nre-election. I saw this in the paper . . . Again, opportunity was knocking. I\nsaid, \"I'll run.\" She and I, together, and a couple of others, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=6990.0,7020.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/235","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ada Toombs and I\ndon't know who else . . . We scrounged around and we ended up getting the\nremaining 14, 13, or whatever we needed to run for the Executive Committee.\nAnother black, Miles Amos, ran. He was a popular druggist on the west side. We\nran and got elected. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=7020.0,7050.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/236","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It was a four-year term. I became secretary of the\nExecutive Committee and Margaret MacDougall became chairman. In that position,\nincidentally, I did a lot of work there, too, one thing being to codify all the\nelection laws. We put out a book which is in the library which, at that time,\nhad federal, state, county, city and ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=7050.0,7080.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/237","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Executive Committee regulations. We changed\nthe name from White Democratic Executive Committee to Democratic Executive\nCommittee. Really, the courts did in effect. After that, I was the one who made\nthe motion that we change it without the word democratic and just become the\nCity Executive Committee, and change our local elections to non-partisan\nelections so that ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=7080.0,7110.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/238","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Republicans could run as well as Democrats. They didn't have\nan executive committee because there weren't enough of them and they didn't have\nthe money to hold an election. That made a big change in the local government\nmanagement. Later, one of the Republicans who ran and got elected to the City\nCouncil, then called the Board of Aldermen, ran against me ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=7110.0,7140.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/239","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"for mayor. That was\nRodney Cook. That was alright. That was his right. I created the opportunity for\nhim and he ran against me. City Executive Committee, I ran for re-election and\nserved another four years. I served eight years on the City Executive Committee.\nThen, interestingly enough, it was sort of opportunity that knocked for the next\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=7140.0,7170.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/240","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"office I sought, which was that of president of the Board of Aldermen or City\nCouncil. They also called it vice-mayor. I was secretary of the City Executive\nCommittee. In that position I sat in the office and had each candidate come in\nwhen they wanted to run for office. They would swear that they'd take the oath\nof the candidacy, pay their fee, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=7170.0,7200.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/241","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and get their book of regulations so they could\nbecome a candidate. At the time, Ivan Allen was running for mayor and a slew of\nothers, including Lester Maddox, whom you might know, who was a most extreme\nright-winger. One of the other good guys who was running was Muggsy Smith, who\nhad been in the legislature and was a moderate to liberal. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=7200.0,7230.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/242","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I hated to see Muggsy\nand Ivan run against each other, so each time somebody would come in, I would\ntry to convince them to go out and convince Muggsy to run for president of the\ncouncil rather than mayor. Later he could run for mayor. We would lose one of\nthem if they both ran for mayor. They couldn't both be mayor. That was my\ninterest. One man, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=7230.0,7260.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/243","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Everett Millican had been a state senator who was going to\nrun for the City Council . . . He had been on City Council, was going to run\nagain, and was qualified. I gave him this pitch and he said, \"Yes, somebody\nneeds to beat Lee Evans.\" Lee Evans was the president of the council. That\nwasn't my reason. My reason was Muggsy should run because he shouldn't run\nagainst Ivan. Everett Millican, who was highly respected in the community, was\nsaying, \"Yes, somebody needs to ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=7260.0,7290.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/244","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"beat Lee Evans because he's done a bad job on\nseveral things.\" Part of which was voting against Egleston. I'm giving you a lot\nof words that don't mean anything to you, but they're . . . Egleston was the\nfirst public housing project, not the first, but one that would have been\nracially mixed. Evans had broken a tie vote on the Board of Aldermen and voted\nagainst it. Everett Millican said somebody needs to beat Lee Evans. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=7290.0,7320.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/245","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I went home\nthat night and started thinking about it and decided, \"If somebody needs to beat\nhim, maybe I'll do it.\" I asked my wife and I asked A. T. Walden, the black\nlawyer I mentioned earlier, and I asked Helen Bullard who was sort of the guru\nof . . .\n\nKREMER: Helen who?\n\nMASSELL: Bullard, she's deceased also, but she was the guru of local political\ncampaigns. She had handled Bill Hartsfield's for years. She handled ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=7320.0,7350.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/246","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mayor Ivan\nAllen's. She handled all of mine, too. Those three people said, \"Yes, go for\nit.\" The next day I qualified myself to run for president of the council and\nsubsequently got elected.\n\nKREMER: Muggsy didn't run.\n\nMASSELL: Muggsy ran for mayor and got beat. That was the end of Muggsy. He got\nbitter and never did run for anything else. He is since deceased, also.\n[unintelligible]. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=7350.0,7380.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/247","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Then, I ran for re-election for president of the council which\nwas very successful. I had about five opponents. One was black. I had some of\neverything. I won without a runoff which was very unusual. I served eight years\nthere. Again opportunity knocked because Ivan Allen decided not to run again.\n\nKREMER: I have a question. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=7380.0,7410.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/248","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"During your term as vice-mayor, is that when there\nseemed to be more blacks involved politically in the city?\n\nMASSELL: They were just beginning then. When I was secretary of the City\nExecutive Committee, that's when A. T. Walden and Miles Amos got elected, the\nfirst two blacks. A guy named Horace Tate, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=7410.0,7440.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/249","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I think four years later, got elected\nto the Board of Education, who later ran against me when I ran for mayor and has\nsince been in the legislature ever since until this last week. He was just beat\nby Ralph Abernathy III. The blacks started about then. The first black got\nelected ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=7440.0,7470.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/250","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to City Council, I keep calling it City Council, but back then it was\ncalled Board of Aldermen when I got elected president of the council. That was .\n. . I think that was the time--either then or four years later when I was\nre-elected. That's when the blacks started getting elected to office. Q.B.\nWilliamson was elected to the City Council as the ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=7470.0,7500.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/251","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"first black there. Leroy\nJohnson was elected to the legislature and the state senate. They were starting\nright about then. That was the first one. A. T. Walden was the first, he and\nMiles Amos.\n\nKREMER: We're not sure what year this is?\n\nMASSELL: I can look it up in my biography. When [Mayor] Ivan [Allen} wasn't\ngoing to run again, there was an opening there.\n\nKREMER: Did he ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=7500.0,7530.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/252","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"encourage you to run?\n\nMASSELL: No. In fact, he opposed me. He supported Rodney Cook who was the\ngentleman I mentioned earlier. Rodney was more conservative than I. I guess the\ncommunity is more conservative.\n\nKREMER: Did you get along with him when you were vice-mayor?\n\nMASSELL: Yes. They're two separate offices. Some people think of them as a\ndeputy mayor like they have in New York. That's not the way it is here. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=7530.0,7560.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/253","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You're\nelected and you're elected independently. You're president of the [Atlanta City]\nCouncil and a separate office holder.\n\nKREMER: What was it like working with him? What did you work on that you\naccomplished together?\n\nMASSELL: I can't remember any specific program that we undertook together. The\nmayor and council system then was ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=7560.0,7590.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/254","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"different from what we have today. What we had\nthen was what we called a weak mayor system, a mayor-council where the mayor\ndoes not have the power to administer without the acquiescence of the council.\nToday they're separate bodies. The mayor is administrative and the council is legislative.\n\nKREMER: You actually could have caused him a lot of grief if you didn't support\nhim in things.\n\nMASSELL: Right.\n\nKREMER: Did you ever do that?\n\nMASSELL: I supported him in almost everything. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=7590.0,7620.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/255","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I opposed him on the famous\nPeyton wall debacle, which was where he was trying to stop integration expanding\ninto a neighborhood, black ownership.\n\nKREMER: Can you tell me a little bit about that?\n\nMASSELL: Yes, that was an unfortunate situation where the whites . . . This was\nin a west-side community that was all white. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=7620.0,7650.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/256","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The blacks were buying homes\napproaching that area. There was panic in the white community.\n\nKREMER: Was there blockbusting?\n\nMASSELL: There was some of that, too, yes. Ivan got the idea that he could stop\nthem from going down a certain street called Peyton Road by putting up a\nbarricade and that they wouldn't buy beyond that because they couldn't ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=7650.0,7680.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/257","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"drive\ntheir cars. They'd have to go another way to get out, that type of thing. Like\nBill Hartsfield said, \"It's hard to make a mistake. Don't make one that can be\nphotographed.\" That photograph went all over the country of him putting up a\nbarricade or having it put up. That didn't work and didn't last. I opposed him\npublicly on that. Generally speaking, we got along alright.\n\nKREMER: Was there anything else that you opposed him ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=7680.0,7710.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/258","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"publicly?\n\nMASSELL: I don't recall opposing him on anything.\n\nKREMER: That must have made you very popular with the black community.\n\nMASSELL: I was popular with the black community already. I got elected with 90\npercent of the black vote. It wasn't a political ploy. It was an ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=7710.0,7740.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/259","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"unpopular thing\nthat I was white and living in a white community in a white world and was\nalready elected. It didn't serve a good political purpose but it was just not a\ncorrect thing to do, in my opinion.\n\nKREMER: When you were vice-mayor, what was the thing you were most proud of that\nyou did, the best accomplishment?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=7740.0,7770.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/260","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MASSELL: That's a good question but my memory is failing me. I would have to. . .\n\nKREMER: Think about it. We'll come back to that. I'm going to ask you about\nbeing mayor, too.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=7770.0,7800.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/261","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MASSELL: That I can remember. The vice-mayor part . . . vice-mayor was more\ngoverning the City Council.\n\nKREMER: You had to deal with all the council members and get them to get\ntogether on votes. Was that difficult? Tell me about the people on the council\nand what they were like.\n\nMASSELL: That reminds me of what I would ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=7800.0,7830.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/262","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"have claimed as an achievement while I\nwas vice-mayor. There were really three or four of us young Turks: Rodney Cook,\nthe one I mentioned earlier that ran against me later for mayor; Richard Freeman\nwho was also a Republican and who is now a federal judge; Buddy Fowlkes, who's\nstill on the ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=7830.0,7860.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/263","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"council, a senior member; and Cecil Turner, to some degree who has\nsince retired. The five of us were elected at the same time as contemporaries,\nwith new thinking--I guess--from a group of much older men who had been on there\nfor many years. One of the things ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=7860.0,7890.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/264","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that we achieved--Richard, Rodney, and I were\nvery involved in the actual crafting of the legislation--was to eliminate what\nwas called courtesy in the issuing of 1iquor 1icenses. Prior to that time,\nliquor 1icenses had to get the approval of the two aldermen in the ward. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=7890.0,7920.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/265","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"A\nliquor license thus became very valuable because you had to get the approval of\nthe two aldermen in your ward. That meant one alderman could block you from\ngetting your 1icense, which made him very powerful, and they limited the number\nof stores. They would maybe only have two in a ward, not by law but by the\ndecision of those two aldermen, which meant that those ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=7920.0,7950.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/266","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"licenses were extremely\nvaluable. Although we didn't accuse anybody of any wrongdoing, we felt that it\nlent itself to corruption. There were always plenty of accusations of\ncorruption. We were reformers and felt that the whole law needed to be\neliminated, drew the provisions ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=7950.0,7980.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/267","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to do so, politicked through the council, and\ngot it approved to the great resentment of some of the older members of the\ncouncil. We took away a great deal of power . . . some resentment of some\nfriends we had in the community who owned liquor stores because they didn't want\ncompetition. This opened the doors to competition. There was a very ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=7980.0,8010.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/268","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"unholy war.\nYou not only had the liquor barons fighting you, those who had control, but you\nalso had the churches fighting you. Being in the Bible Belt, the Baptist\ninfluence was very powerful. Louie Newton was one of the ministers who got on\nus, accusing us for all kinds of ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=8010.0,8040.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/269","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"deficiencies, to put it 1ightly. It opened a\nflood gate to every [unintelligible]. It was a tough battle. That was one thing\nthat I can point to with pride.\n\nKREMER: Can you point to something that you are not proud of that you regret?\n\nMASSELL: On the counci1? ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=8040.0,8070.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/270","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I really don't remember. I'm pleased that on the City\nExecutive Committee we changed the regulations to non-partisan. It really\ndoesn't make any difference whether you're Republican or Democrat as to how you\npolice crime or fix potholes in the streets. I'm still a Democrat. I was a\nDemocrat. I'll be a Democrat having to do with national elections. When you get\ndown ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=8070.0,8100.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/271","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to the local level, that was a progressive move, in my opinion. As far as\nthings 1 regret when I was president of the council, there probably are some,\nbut I don't recall them right now.\n\nKREMER: Did you have any problems with any particular council people? Did any of\nthem give you a lot of grief?\n\nMASSELL: I had one who went to jail for bribery, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=8100.0,8130.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/272","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"of taking a bribe on a zoning matter.\n\nKREMER: Who was that?\n\nMASSELL: Pete Petree.\n\nKREMER: How did he get caught?\n\nMASSELL: I don't recall the details. I helped the prosecutors. I felt very\nstrongly that it shouldn't be tolerated. There were two others who were indicted\nbut were not convicted. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=8130.0,8160.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/273","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I had offers to me, so I know that it would have felt\nprevalent to the ease of corruption. They make it so easy that you can almost\naccept the reality that there is a lot of ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=8160.0,8190.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/274","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"corruption in government.\n\nKREMER: You think even now, definitely now?\n\nMASSELL: Even now, yes. Based on what I saw, they just make it so attractive.\nThe people who are in office have never made the kind of money that they can\nmake in illegal avenues. This is the same problem you have with drugs. It's a\nwhole other issue. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=8190.0,8220.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/275","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There's so much money involved. Money does corrupt, I can\nassure you.\n\nKREMER: The kinds of bribes that were offered to you . . . What are we talking\nabout besides money?\n\nMASSELL: When I was president of the council, I don't remember any specific\namount. I remember one which was really funny. I'll share an anecdote with you.\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=8220.0,8250.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/276","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It wasn't long after I'd been elected. I had let it be known that I was going to\nbe a stickler for integrity on the Board [of Aldermen] and watching over any\nwrongdoing and accusations of it. These two guys came to see me who were in the\nice cream business. We had a ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=8250.0,8280.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/277","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"member of council who was also in the ice cream\nbusiness. These two men were claiming that he was misusing the power of his\noffice to sell his ice cream. He would tell a beer tavern, \"If you don't buy my\nice cream, I'm going to see that you lose your beer license.\" He'd tell a . . .\n\nKREMER: This is tape 2, side 2, August 24, 1992.\n\nMASSELL: These two men were making ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=8280.0,8310.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/278","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"all these accusations about this council\nmember and I listened intently. I said, \"If you help me, I'll help you.\" They\njumped up and said, \"Don't worry. We'll take care of you.\" I broke out laughing\nin their face because I had no idea what I was saying had two meanings. What I\nwas trying to say was if you'll help me, if you'll get me evidence, witnesses,\nand testimony, I'll help you. I'll put a stop to this. They thought I was\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=8310.0,8340.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/279","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"saying, \"If you'll pay me, I'll stop him from doing this.\" Really, I broke out\nlaughing right in their face. It shows that they were very much against bribes\nunless they could do it, too. When I was mayor, once I was offered . . . I say\noffered. It came through several parties, so I don't know--you never know--how\ntrue ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=8340.0,8370.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/280","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"these things are unless you pursue them. Whenever I had any hint of\nanything, I sent it to the Grand Jury, to the District Attorney for the Grand\nJury. I felt that was the only way I could handle it was to let him handle it.\nOnce I had something that would have amounted to a couple of $100,000, or\nsomething like that.\n\nKREMER: That's definitely significant.\n\nMASSELL: Yes, that's significant.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=8370.0,8400.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/281","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KREMER: Back to the vice-mayor time. Of all the things that happened, what was\nmost controversial? You already told me that. This is when Ivan Allen was mayor.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=8400.0,8430.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/282","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MASSELL: There were a lot of racial changes then. That's when we had some of the\nriots down on Capitol Avenue and that area.\n\nKREMER: Do you think Ivan Allen handled that well?\n\nMASSELL: Yes, I do. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=8430.0,8460.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/283","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He did handle it well.\n\nKREMER: What were some of the things that he did that helped turn the city together?\n\nMASSELL: The fact that as mayor he would take a position that blacks were\nentitled to equal opportunity. It was very important. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=8460.0,8490.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/284","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"They hadn't had that\nbefore. Of course, our laws said that they weren't entitled to equal\nopportunity. You can't say that the mayor was wrong, or Bill Hartsfield or\nLeCraw or Key or anybody before then when they said blacks could not eat in the\nrestaurants. The law said they couldn't eat in restaurants.\n\nKREMER: Were those changed while you were vice-mayor?\n\nMASSELL: Yes.\n\nKREMER: Did you change them through City Council or Board of Aldermen or how\nwere they changed?\n\nMASSELL: They were changed through the courts.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=8490.0,8520.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/285","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KREMER: That's probably when the civil rights law came out.\n\nMASSELL: Yes.\n\nKREMER: Superseded all that anyway.\n\nMASSELL: Yes. It was a very dramatic time, the sit-ins, marches, demonstrations,\nand riots.\n\nKREMER: Were you close to some black people at that time?\n\nMASSELL: Yes.\n\nKREMER: How did they react? That one person you talked about, A.T. . .\n\nKREMER: . . .Walden?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=8520.0,8550.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/286","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MASSELL: A. T. Walden. The black leadership was a very responsible group. I\nattribute a lot of the success of our civil rights reforms to the responsible\nmanner in which the black leadership conducted themselves, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=8550.0,8580.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/287","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"more so than other\ncities. I think a lot of it was because of the education they had had at the\ncollege level, this being the black academic center of the country. There's\nabout five black colleges. They sat around the table and they had on Phi Beta\nKappa keys on their cufflinks. They were ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=8580.0,8610.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/288","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"well-traveled and well-read.\n\nKREMER: Who were some of those leaders?\n\nMASSELL: Martin Luther King.\n\nKREMER: Did you know him well?\n\nMASSELL: Yes. Leroy Johnson.\n\nKREMER: What did he do?\n\nMASSELL: He was a state senator, the first black state senator. Jesse Hill, head\nof Atlanta Life Insurance Company. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=8610.0,8640.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/289","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sam Williamson, not Sam Williams. Sam, a\nminister, I can't remember his name. His widow [Billye Suber Williams Aarons] is\nnow married to Hank Aaron.\n\nKREMER: He was a minister. Do you remember what church?\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=8640.0,8670.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/290","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MASSELL: They had a whole list of . . . The black ministry was very involved.\nJohn Calhoun was a layman out of a ministry.\n\nKREMER: What did he do?\n\nMASSELL: I don't know what John did. He later became a member of City Council.\nHe was a Republican. [Q.V.] Williamson who was a member of ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=8670.0,8700.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/291","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"City Council, was in\nreal estate.\n\nKREMER: Did you socialize with these people?\n\nMASSELL: Not a great deal. I would go to functions at their houses. For\ninstance, T.M. Alexander is one I didn't mention and they were going to his\nhouse when Harry Belefonte was in town. He had a party for him . . . Herman\nRussell and ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=8700.0,8730.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/292","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"different ones, to their homes for small parties. We didn't allow\n[unintelligible] or that type. I used to go to some black night clubs and\nrestaurants. [I] still do.\n\nKREMER: How did your Jewish friends react to that? ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=8730.0,8760.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/293","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Were they pretty conservative?\n\nMASSELL: Everything is relative. The Jewish community was more tolerant of the\nintegration movement than was the non-Jewish white community in general. I was\ngoing to say that during my campaign for president of the council, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=8760.0,8790.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/294","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"most of the\ncampaigning was done at rallies at black churches. I remember walking down the\naisle saying that being Jewish, I felt I was more sensitive to some of their\nhurts, needs, shortcomings, and the lifestyle. Although I couldn't claim to feel\nexactly like a black felt in a white society, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=8790.0,8820.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/295","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I had seen some prejudices and\nfelt I could sense it better than my competitors cou1d.\n\nKREMER: How do you think Ivan Allen related to all that? Here he was, as lucky\nas they come with all the right connections. Yet, he was mayor at a time when\nthings were really changing.\n\nMASSELL: One of the first things I learned, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=8820.0,8850.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/296","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"which I was uncomfortable with at\nfirst but quickly learned to accept, is] that on City Council where I had to get\nvotes from the other council members for various issues, whatever they might be,\nwhether they had to do with racial interests or not . . . I learned if I could\nget people to vote for what I considered to be the right side, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=8850.0,8880.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/297","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I wouldn't be\nconcerned about why they did it. I started off thinking that everybody ought to\nunderstand that this is right, that's wrong, and this is why we must do this. I\nlearned that that didn't get the votes. The way you got the votes was by trading\noff or persuading people because of other concerns or interests that they might\nhave. This was true of whatever came ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=8880.0,8910.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/298","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"before us. This was true in Ivan Allen's\ntenure. He may not have done it for the right reasons, but he did it because he\nknew that's what he should do as mayor to keep peace in the community. He felt\nwe should have peace as strong as any man alive could have felt. In order to\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=8910.0,8940.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/299","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"keep that peace, what must you do? You bring yourself to do that. You have to\ncommend him for that because, as you alluded to, his background was not very\nliberal by any stretch of the imagination. As you might imagine, he caught a lot\nof flak from his friends. He was still a member of the [Piedmont] Driving Club\nand he was still a member of the First Presbyterian Church and still a member of\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=8940.0,8970.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/300","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"these WASP operations, or whatever you want to call it. He got a lot of mean and\nangry letters and looks.\n\nKREMER: You think that's where the term, \"Atlanta, the city too busy to hate,\"\ncame from? ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=8970.0,9000.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/301","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Everyone was so pragmatic and still is. People are willing to work it\nout to stay in business.\n\nMASSELL: That was Bill Hartsfield's slogan. Maybe. I was willing to work out\nthings if I could get people to vote what I considered to be the right way. The\nfact that they did it because somebody else owed them a favor or for some other\nreason, I overlooked. That was okay.\n\nKREMER: I'm just comparing it to other cities. For instance, Memphis during the\nsame ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=9000.0,9030.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/302","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"period of time wasn't working things out.\n\nMASSELL: There were a lot of things going on here. I mentioned the black\nleadership and the fact that these were not only educated people, well-read, but\nthat they were our blacks, if you want to put it that way. They weren't\nout-of-towners that were coming over here and telling us how to run our\nbusiness. Martin Luther King 1ived here. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=9030.0,9060.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/303","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"[Stokely] Carmichael, the head of SNCC\nlived here, the Student Non-Violent Coordinating Committee.\n\nKREMER: Stokely Carmichael?\n\nMASSELL: Yes. The head of the region for NAACP, the large regional office. Each\norganization had a big position here. They weren't sent from ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=9060.0,9090.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/304","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"out of town. They\nlived here. That helped. For some reason, we had a lot more young leadership\nthan some of our neighboring cities. I remember being impressed in a negative\nway when I saw the riots in Birmingham and the news reports on television.\nEverybody being interviewed was in his sixties, old guys, like I am ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=9090.0,9120.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/305","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"now in my\nsixties. Our leadership was in its thirties. I think that made a lot of\ndifference. Being a regional city as we are because of its real estate benefited\nfrom having the space, having the transportation . . .\n\nKREMER: When do you think Atlanta actually became regional? When did it become .\n. .\n\nMASSELL: I don't know. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=9120.0,9150.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/306","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The fact that we were, that brought in people from all\nover with fresh thinking and new ideas. We weren't just local or parochial. That\nhelped a lot. We were fortunate, for whatever reason, for having real good\nleadership and media at that time with Ralph McGill and Gene Patterson and\npeople like that in the Atlanta newspapers. Put all that together and you've got\na lot going for you.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=9150.0,9180.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/307","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KREMER: What about now? Our last little thing after the Atlanta riots and the\nway Mayor Jackson handled it. I was at the park recently for the Black Arts\nFestival and there were petitions going around asking for an investigation about\nthe containment and the way the police handled the students from the AU [ Clark\nAtlanta University] campus. What do you think ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=9180.0,9210.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/308","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"about that and what's going on now?\n\nMASSELL: Let me start with this. It's interesting. If Eldrin Bell was white,\nhe'd be run out of town. I support Eldrin. We're personal friends. We have\nbreakfast almost every Saturday morning. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=9210.0,9240.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/309","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I was glad he was named chief because\nwe had gotten to the point where nothing else was working and the crime was\nreally damaging the community. The image and the conception of everything about\nAtlanta was deteriorating because of crime. We needed . . . It was time for a\ntough cop. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=9240.0,9270.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/310","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That flies in the face of my liberalism, passiveness, and other\nsensitivities, but he is a tough cop. He is bringing down the crime status month\nafter month in Buckhead. I looked at the others but I can't remember them. In\nBuckhead ours have been down ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=9270.0,9300.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/311","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"every month since January over the previous same\nmonth for last year--January over January, February over February, and so\nforth--now for seven months. You can't ask for much better than that. Part of\nhis tough policing is sometimes going beyond equity or civil rights He might\nhave done that ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=9300.0,9330.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/312","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"on the campus. I wasn't there. In hindsight, I'd say . . . He\nwasn't there at the beginning. Unfortunately, he was out of town. In hindsight,\nI would say I would not have gone on the campus but I would have gone quicker to\nthe Korean store. You've got to make those decisions quickly and on the spot,\nand I'm not very fond of [unintelligible] . . .\n\nKREMER: What happened is we didn't lose a good ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=9330.0,9360.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/313","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"portion of our city because\nwhatever they did do contained what could have happened.\n\nMASSELL: Nobody got killed. Nobody got hurt. It was much better than what it\ncould have been.\n\nKREMER: When Martin Luther King was killed, what happened in Atlanta? How was\nthat being handled?\n\nMASSELL: It was handled as well ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=9360.0,9390.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/314","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"as any situation of that magnitude could\npossibly have been handled. My hats off to [Mayor] Ivan [Allen] who was really\ncalling the shots on that and Helen Bullard, who I mentioned earlier, who was\ncounseling everybody. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=9390.0,9420.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/315","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He immediately went to Coretta [Scott King], was with her,\nand showed the concern of the city. During that time, incidentally, my\nassignment was to be at Hanger One, which is a private hanger at Hartsfield\nAirport, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=9420.0,9450.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/316","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to greet all of the dignitaries that came in and offer what help we\ncould be. This included Jacquelyn Kennedy and [Nelson] Rockefeller. Everybody\nwho was anybody came, just about, several ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=9450.0,9480.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/317","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"senators and governors. It was handled\nvery well. The law enforcement, the relationship with the state which was still\nconservative, the care for the family . . . Everything was handled very well. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=9480.0,9510.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/318","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I\nhelped Coretta later in getting the home site put on the historical\n1ist--whatever you call it-- and was on her board for several years and has\nsince dropped off of it.\n\nKREMER: It's interesting how a person can have many ties and it's not ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=9510.0,9540.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/319","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"as\nwell-done as so many things that took place [unintelligible]. Why do you think\nthat's so? It's a private foundation I'm guessing, rather than any city involvement.\n\nMASSELL: That's true.\n\nKREMER: I worked for the city when we were putting planters on Auburn Street,\nthat sort of thing. This probably is one of the most famous places of this city.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=9540.0,9570.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/320","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MASSELL: It draws a big number of people, too. That's a very good question. It\nhas really not been adopted as such by the city with any great pride and that\nmay be a personality problem because of Coretta. I don't know that to be true.\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=9570.0,9600.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/321","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"She's wanted to manage it and control it completely. That may be the reason.\nI've been removed from it, so I can't say.\n\nKREMER: I think one of his sons was removed from it, too. That sort of gave me a\nlittle inkling that maybe it wasn't [unintelligible]. I was thinking, even for\nthe Olympics, a good [unintelligible] can take those exhibits and ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=9600.0,9630.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/322","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"really do\nsomething well-done, really terrific. It's going to be covered with visitors. It\nis already heavily visited. I bet more people go there than to the Jimmy Carter Library.\n\nMASSELL: Yes. Bus loads come here to go there. Bus loads don't come here to go\nto the Carter Library.\n\nKREMER: Any other thoughts about ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=9630.0,9660.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/323","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"your relationships with the black community\nbefore you were mayor? Today is February 8, 1993. This is Ray Ann Kremer\ninterviewing Sam Massell. This is our third tape, first side and we are doing\nthis for the Atlanta Jewish Oral History Project, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=9660.0,9690.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/324","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"sponsored by the American\nJewish Committee, the Atlanta Jewish Federation and the National Council of\nJewish Women. We stopped on our last tape talking about the blacks and when\nMartin Luther King died, and pretty much got through it. What we really didn't\ncover was other points of interest, things that happened when you were\nvice-mayor, and what led up ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=9690.0,9720.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/325","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to and what went on behind the scenes of you running\nfor mayor.\n\nMASSELL: When you say things that happened when I was vice-mayor, at random?\n\nKREMER: Yes, at random. Things that you recall that were either controversial or\npositive or historic.\n\nMASSELL: First of all, did I tell you how I was ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=9720.0,9750.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/326","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"drawn into the vice-mayor's contest?\n\nKREMER: No.\n\nMASSELL: . . . because I don't recall what all we've discussed already. It's an\ninteresting story to me, and to politicians it might be. At the time, I was\nsecretary of the Atlanta City Executive Committee which was a very minor elected\noffice charged with the responsibility of conducting the city elections,\nestablishing the rules for the elections, and establishing the qualifying ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=9750.0,9780.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/327","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"fees.\nThis meant that I came in contact with everybody running for office. They had to\ncome to me, qualify, and sign an oath that they would support the nominee in the\ngeneral election. At the time, I was concerned because in the mayor's race we\nhad two able candidates among some others competing with each other, one being\nIvan Allen and the other being Muggsy Smith. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=9780.0,9810.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/328","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It was my opinion that it was a\nwaste to lose one of these and that Muggsy Smith, instead, should run for the\npresident of the Board of Aldermen or vice-mayor, as it's called in some\nquarters. [I] kept trying to encourage people to try to persuade him to do that.\nEach time a political figure would come in and ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=9810.0,9840.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/329","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"qualify to run for whatever\noffice they were seeking, I would say, \"Let's talk about Muggsy Smith. He\nshouldn't he running. We're going to lose him. He should be running for this\nother and later he can become mayor.\" One of the people that qualified to run\nfor the Board of Aldermen for re-election was Everett Millican. He had been a\nstate senator and a very prominent government official locally at several levels\nand highly respected. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=9840.0,9870.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/330","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"When I mentioned to him that we should try to get Muggsy\nSmith to run for president of Board of Aldermen, he said, \"Yes, somebody needs\nto beat Lee Evans.\" He was considering the need to run for that office for an\nentirely different purpose. He was not one to help Muggsy, but because he was\nupset with Lee Evans who was the incumbent, president of the Board of Aldermen.\nThe reason was because Lee Evans . . . his ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=9870.0,9900.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/331","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"principle reason was because Lee\nEvans had voted against the . . . I'm trying to make sure of the name . . . I'm\npretty sure it was called the Egleston Housing Project which would have been the\nfirst break-through in public housing in a predominantly white area.\n\nKREMER: Where was that, what area?\n\nMASSELL: I'm pretty sure it was just south of North Avenue, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=9900.0,9930.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/332","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"east of Juniper\n[Street], in that quadrant, somewhere in there. Maybe a little further east,\nmaybe as far as Glen Iris [Drive]. I can't remember exactly where it was. I had\na great deal of respect for Edward Millican. I started thinking about that. We\ntalked about it at length. He felt Lee Evans was not doing a good job and\nsomebody needed to run for that office. I went home that ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=9930.0,9960.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/333","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"night and discussed the\npossibility of my running with my wife. She offered her support and\nencouragement. The next day I called on Helen Bullard who was a well-known\npolitical consultant who had managed the campaigns for Bill Hartsfield before as\nmayor and, at that time, was managing Ivan Allen's campaign for mayor. I called\non A. T. Walden who was ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=9960.0,9990.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/334","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the black lawyer member of the Atlanta City Executive\nCommittee that I think I mentioned earlier. All three of them encouraged me to\ndo so. The next day I qualified myself and decided to challenge.\n\nKREMER: What happened to Muggsy? He just didn't run?\n\nMASSELL: Muggsy continued to run for mayor and got defeated. That was the end of\nMuggsy. In fact, he got bitter ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=9990.0,10020.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/335","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"in the campaign over his defeat, feeling that the\nblack community had deserted him. He had been a very liberal member of the state\nlegislature on black issues, particularly. This was back in the days when\nrepresentatives were extremely powerful, in that Fulton County had three for the\nwhole county. Today we have 23 or something. They had one state senator who was\nEdward Millican--who I had mentioned earlier--so ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=10020.0,10050.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/336","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"they had tremendous influence\nover any legislation that affected Atlanta or this county.\n\nKREMER: Do you remember when blacks became a significant factor in Atlanta politics?\n\nMASSELL: The beginning, the first ones were A. T. Walden and Miles Amos, the\ndruggist, who together qualified to run for the City Executive Committee. Did I\nnot give you the whole . . . but ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=10050.0,10080.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/337","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that's when it started.\n\nKREMER: Yes, you did that, but that was when, even the electorate, even the\nvoters . . .\n\nMASSELL: The voters were influential before that. They had what they called the\nAtlanta Negro Voters League which was a very powerful group that put out a slate\nthe night before the election, delivered by hand, house to house, in the black\ncommunity. If you were on that slate, the probability was that you would get elected.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=10080.0,10110.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/338","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KREMER: What year was that? Do you remember when that started?\n\nMASSELL: I'd have to go back maybe 40 years ago, roughly. I could 1ook it up and\ntell you but that's about when it was. I went yesterday to an autograph party\nfor a book authored by T.M. Alexander, a black Republican who ran for the Board\nof Aldermen and got defeated ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=10110.0,10140.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/339","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"back in those days. I think he was defeated as much\nbecause he was a Republican as it was because he was black. Republicans were\ndefinitely in the minority and for the most part in the closet. That was the\nbeginning of my campaign efforts for the president of Board of Aldermen, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=10140.0,10170.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/340","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"known\nalso as vice-mayor. It was quite an upset for me to defeat Lee Evans, who was\nolder, the incumbent, had been there for many years, was not Jewish, or that he\nhad any other minority designations. Lee, incidentally, had been my law school\nteacher, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=10170.0,10200.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/341","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"one of them. I know he went to my Uncle Ben [Massell] to try to get him\nto talk me out of running. Ben said, \"He couldn't do anything with me.\" That's\nthe way it started.\n\nKREMER: What happened to the housing project? It didn't get built, did it?\n\nMASSELL: No, I don't know. No, I take that back. I think it did. I don't know.\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=10200.0,10230.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/342","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That's terrible. I'd hate to be quoted as saying that. I don't know. My memory\nis what is failing me, not my knowledge. I think it did not get built because he\nwas the deciding vote, Lee Evans was. The chair only votes in the case of a tie,\nso he blocked it at that time. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=10230.0,10260.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/343","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Four years later, incidentally--I'll come back if\nI can think of some other things--I ran for re-election for president of Board\nof Aldermen and vice-mayor. I had, as far as I can remember, five opponents. One\nof them was black. One of them was Jewish.\n\nKREMER: Who were they?\n\nMASSELL: I'd have to go back. I won without a run-off which was ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=10260.0,10290.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/344","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"very unusual. I\ngot a majority of the vote the first go around of all six of us running. One of\nthe things that I achieved as the president of the Board of Aldermen was the\ncreation of the Community Relations Commission. When I became mayor,\nincidentally, I appointed Andy Young as chairman of the Community Relations\nCommission. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=10290.0,10320.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/345","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The fact is as vice-mayor I was the one who got that introduced and\nadopted. Another piece of legislation was the creation of the Urban Design\nCommission. When I became mayor, I appointed as chairman of that the wife at\nthat time of my main mayoralty opponent, Rodney Cook, a Republican. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=10320.0,10350.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/346","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Another\nthing that was probably the most significant legislation when I was president of\nthe council . . . I use the word council because that's what it's called now.\nThe Board of Aldermen and council are the same thing and vice-mayor, they all\nthree are the same title. For this I'm not entitled to full credit, because\nthere were three of us, Rodney Cook, who later ran against me ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=10350.0,10380.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/347","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"for mayor, and\nRichard Freeman who is now a Federal Judge. Both of those were Republicans,\nand--incidentally, I think I gave you on an earlier interview--were able to run\nfor the Board of Aldermen because of the change I had introduced in the City\nExecutive Committee in making the city elections non-partisan. For the first\ntime we had Republicans run and get elected. The major legislation [that] there\nwere three of us working on ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=10380.0,10410.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/348","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"with great determination and dedication, was doing\naway with what they called ward courtesy. We had wards instead of districts.\nThey were sections of the city. Ward courtesy was the procedure by which the\nalderman in any ward could veto anything happening in his ward. Most\nparticularly, it had to do with liquor licenses which became extremely valuable\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=10410.0,10440.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/349","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and reportedly created opportunities for graft by those who had licenses paying\noff to prevent anybody else from getting one or those who wanted one, paying off\nto get one. It was, we thought, a very bad system. It. was interesting that it\ncreated a rather unholy alliance of the liquor people ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=10440.0,10470.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/350","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"together with the churches\nfighting us. The churches were saying, \"You'll create more liquor stores,\" which\nindeed it would and did. The Baptist influence was very powerful in opposition\nto us together with the liquor barons. Incidentally, I might mention, it was\ndifficult personally because it adversely affected a number of my Jewish\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=10470.0,10500.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/351","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"friends. It happened that a lot of Jewish people were in the liquor business. It\nwas unfortunate but. I felt that it was progressive legislation.\n\nKREMER: Did you get a lot of heat from those people?\n\nMASSELL: Yes. Some probably have not forgiven me yet. They made a lot of money\nat the time. I guess I shouldn't feel too badly about it. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=10500.0,10530.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/352","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I'm trying to remember\nwhat else during that period. I guess that was pretty much the major actions or\nactivities that I can recall right now.\n\nKREMER: This was right after you became mayor?\n\nMASSELL: No, all that was when I was vice-mayor. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=10530.0,10560.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/353","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"When I became mayor,\nincidentally, I mentioned appointing Andy Young as chairman of the Community\nRelations Commission. I had created the Community Relations Commission when I\nwas vice-mayor but the appointments came from the mayor, so I didn't make the\nappointments until I became mayor. A Jewish person was chairman of it before and\nthat was . . ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=10560.0,10590.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/354","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I'll think of his name in a minute. He's since deceased, but he was\na good friend. He also was upset when I didn't re-appoint him. I felt that it\nwas important to have a black head it.\n\nKREMER: There were a lot of Jewish people involved in city politics then. I keep\nhearing you mention that. I haven't gotten any of the names. Do you know the names?\n\nMASSELL: Yes, they were active. The Jewish community had very few ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=10590.0,10620.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/355","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"votes,\nalthough a lot of the non-Jewish community didn't realize this. They did raise\nmoney. Abe Goldstein, who was the president of Prior Tire Company and whose son\nis Leon Goldstein, was the grandfather of the political influence ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=10620.0,10650.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/356","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and power in\nthe Jewish community. In fact, Mayor Hartsfield used to go by Abe's office every\ncouple of weeks on Saturday and sit and talk to him about the city and business\naffairs. They would get together groups that would have lunches for candidates\nrunning. They would make sizable contributions to help them get elected. There\nwere ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=10650.0,10680.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/357","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Irving [Goldstein] and Marvin Goldstein, Marvin, particularly, was active\nin political affairs for years and years and years.\n\nKREMER: Marvin Goldstein the orthodontist?\n\nMASSELL: Yes, not in elected office but in helping candidates, working with\ncandidates. Jimmy Kaufmann is still involved. He's involved mostly as a\nlobbyist, you might say, for the medical society fraternity ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=10680.0,10710.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/358","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and mostly at the\nstate level. He's also been involved locally in raising funds. Irving Kaler was\nthe lawyer I was thinking about. He was head of the Community Relations\nCommission before . . .\n\nKREMER: How do you spell his name?\n\nMASSELL: K-A-L-E-R. His wife is still living. I started to tell you an\ninteresting story. In naming people to the Community Relations Commission, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=10710.0,10740.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/359","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I had\nreached the decision that there was more than just white, black, Jewish, and\nGentile representation that needed to be appointed, that there were other human\nrelations problems in the community with youth, with the aged, and with the gay\ncommunity, which was very new at the time and controversial, to say the least.\n\nKREMER: About what year ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=10740.0,10770.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/360","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"did we start getting a large gay community here?\n\nMASSELL: In the 1970's and in the hippie movement is when they came. I started\nto tell you on the Community Relations Commission, I went out and found a\nbeautiful woman--I think in her eighties--to be the representative for the\nsenior citizens. She was a crackerjack member. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=10770.0,10800.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/361","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I picked a student, a black high\nschool student, to represent youth. He was Michael Hollis, who later became\npresident of AirAtlanta. [He was] a very prominent businessman locally. The part\nthat was most interesting is I appointed a person who was head of the gay rights\nmovement openly. This was unheard of, to represent the gay community. The\nembarrassing part, to show you how far we've ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=10800.0,10830.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/362","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"come, was that he worked for the\nAtlanta newspaper, the Atlanta Journal--they may have been separate then. When\nthe newspaper reported the names of the people I had appointed with their\nbusiness affiliations, they did not list his employment because they were too\nembarrassed to say that they had somebody who was gay working for them. The\nCommunity Relations Commission ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=10830.0,10860.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/363","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"served a very important purpose and is now being\nrecreated by Mayor Jackson.\n\nKREMER: When did it stop?\n\nMASSELL: I don't know . . . sometime after I came out of office. You asked about\nthe gay community. It happened about the time of the hippie movement, in the\nmid-1970's, early 1970's, excuse me. I was still in office. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=10860.0,10890.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/364","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"They had overflowed\nwhat they call a tight squeeze area in Atlanta, in Midtown, Peachtree Street,\nabout 8th Street to 14th Street, more or less. It was a tremendous problem at\nthe time. I could go on and talk about that for hours. I don't know how much you\nwant to talk about that.\n\nKREMER: I'd 1ike to hear a 1ittle bit more because it's definitely very much a\npart of Atlanta. It used to be that you ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=10890.0,10920.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/365","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"thought of those communities as being in\nSan Francisco or New York. It's kind of interesting that this would be the big\nplace in the South.\n\nMASSELL: We had so many. Part of it is probably because of my liberal philosophy\nthat they felt they would not be mistreated here. I was very firm in my\nphilosophy that they should not be mistreated. I ran an ad once in all the\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=10920.0,10950.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/366","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"underground or alternative newspapers around the country that would take\nit--some of them refused to take our money--addressing the flower children of\nthe country, telling them that they are welcome here, that they would be treated\nfairly, however, they shouldn't come without bread and a pad. We couldn't feed\nthem. We couldn't house them. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=10950.0,10980.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/367","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The purpose of the ad was to really just set the\nrecord straight because they were coming in such droves. A lot of them were\nsleeping in the parks and places.\n\nKREMER: Are you saying flower children is the euphemism for gays?\n\nMASSELL: No, for the hippie movement . . . the drug scene . . . the drugs, the\nlong hair, the whole phenomenon of that period, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=10980.0,11010.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/368","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"anti-society, anti-structured\nlife, anti-government.\n\nKREMER: You were just saying that the welfare of the city couldn't handle . . .\n\nMASSELL: Yes. We didn't have enough places to take care of them, enough food,\nenough personnel, enough funds, but they would be treated fair if they came. A\nlot of people think they were just the poor and the ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=11010.0,11040.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/369","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"homeless, but many of them\nwere the children of bank presidents, department store heads, and other big\nbusiness people. One side story that got me in trouble is that during that\nperiod--and they were wall to wall--we had a bunch of bikers come into town,\nthese motorcycle guys in leather jackets and chains. Their ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=11040.0,11070.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/370","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"interest was beating\nup gays, flower children, or hippies. I issued strong orders of how they would\nhe controlled, again through feeling that they had a right to exist, a right to\n1ive in freedom, and whatever anybody else had. If they did not have mufflers on\ntheir motorcycle, they would be ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=11070.0,11100.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/371","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"arrested. If they got their motorcycles on the\nsidewalk, they'd be arrested. The next week, after I issued that order, the\nInternational Shriner convention came to Atlanta. Anybody that's ever seen one\nknows that they put their motorcycles not just on the sidewalk but in the\nlobbies of hotels. They ride them all over the place without mufflers and\neverything else. I had to see that the law was evenly enforced. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=11100.0,11130.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/372","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I issued orders.\nWe spent hours over two or three days with the head--potentate or whatever he\nwas--[and] me personally, on the phone with him explaining why they had to\nfollow this rule. They couldn't understand it. This was a local judge, you\nunderstand; a friend of mine, but he just couldn't understand. He just couldn't\nget it through his head. I finally had to order him arrested. The police captain\non the scene was a member of the Shrine and would not ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=11130.0,11160.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/373","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"arrest him. I had to go\ndown and arrest him myself. I was assured that I would never get another Shrine\nvote for the rest of my life. There are a lot of Shriners out there. In fact, in\nlater years, when I was in the travel business, when one of the outside sales\npeople came back having called on a jeweler who was a Shriner and said, \"What\ndid you do to the Shriners? They won't give me a penny worth of business.\" That\nwas years after being out of business. When I was in office, I'll have to\nconfess, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=11160.0,11190.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/374","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"at one time or another I stepped on everybody's toes whether it was the\nJewish community, the black community, organized labor, and the Shriners. You\nname it and I couId give you an illustration of sometime that they didn't\napprove of what I did. The reason was because I didn't approve of what they did.\nThat was the . . . One other time that ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=11190.0,11220.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/375","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"nobody has ever heard about I'll expose.\nThe night I gave a major address on the hippie movement which was broadcast 1ive\non one of the TV stations. I think it was a 20-minute address to the community.\nAfter which I walked through the area, about ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=11220.0,11250.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/376","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"seven or eight blocks with my . . .\ncan you cut that off a minute? . . . This was following the address to the\ncommunity about the hippie problem or condition or situation. I walked the area,\nabout eight blocks, in the company of one security aide, my press secretary, and\none personal friend. When we got to the ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=11250.0,11280.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/377","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"end of the area we went to a little\nrestaurant to have a cup of coffee. At that point I realized, noticing that when\nthe coat was opened, my friend was carrying a pistol which almost made me faint\naway dead to the world. He was such a loyal, close friend that had anybody\npushed me or shoved me, he would have shot him. That would have been ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=11280.0,11310.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/378","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"a riot, as\nwell as the end of a political career and everything else. I wouldn't have let\nanybody carry a gun near me like that for anything in the world. You can't\nimagine how hostile this situation was [and] how tense it was. You could hardly\nwalk on the sidewalks. What we had during that period . . . We had all the\nrednecks from all over Georgia coming up here to look at them, to gape at them,\nbecause they were on television all the time. They would be bumper to bumper\ndown Peachtree ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=11310.0,11340.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/379","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Street, the automobiles of people looking, because this was\nsomething they had never seen before.\n\nKREMER: Where were these young folks moving in from?\n\nMASSELL: All over the country.\n\nKREMER: They just picked Atlanta.\n\nMASSELL: I explained why. I did have a, like I said a . . .\n\nKREMER: The ads . . .\n\nMASSELL: Before that, I was known for my liberal philosophy. I believe they have\na right to wear long hair. I was on national television about it. I believe ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=11340.0,11370.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/380","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"they\nhave a right to not work if they don't want to work as long as they can support\nthemselves. They have a right to wear funny clothes and funky stuff. I couldn't\nsay that anybody had the right to take drugs because they were against the law.\nI just had a . . . As far as I could see . . .\n\nKREMER: Did they have a lot more drug activity here?\n\nMASSELL: A tremendous amount.\n\nKREMER: Did you have organized crime here at that point?\n\nMASSELL: Not to my knowledge. You're talking about the ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=11370.0,11400.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/381","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"mafia level?\n\nKREMER: Yes.\n\nMASSELL: No. There was never suggested that we did. I didn't even object to\ntheir sleeping in the park. I tried to get a little place set aside on 10th\nStreet, where there used to be a school that burned down, to set aside as a park\nfor sleeping purposes. I found in all of my 22 years in elected office, I never\nhad any problem ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=11400.0,11430.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/382","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"from anybody who was asleep. They never burglarized anybody,\nraped anybody, or robbed anybody. They don't even use profanity when they're\nsleeping. That never bothered me when they were sleeping.\n\nKREMER: We had a lot of problems when they wanted to do a park for the homeless\nhere not too many years ago.\n\nMASSELL: Yes, but it was a difficult time. It was difficult for a lot of the\nretailers along that ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=11430.0,11460.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/383","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"strip of Peachtree Street. For the most part, most of them\nwere practically put out of business by these kids because they weren't patrons\nof the kind of stores that were there. By the same token, some new stores\nopened, head shops and whatever they called them. Some of those thrived during\nthat period. A lot of buildings burned. I had one that was subsidized for a\nhalf-way house, a home ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=11460.0,11490.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/384","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"for drug addicts. It was burned to the ground, I don't\nthink on purpose, but for whatever reason I had a major loss because of that.\nTimes change.\n\nKREMER: When did that period end?\n\nMASSELL: About . . . It just lasted a few years. It started in late 1960's--1968\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=11490.0,11520.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/385","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"roughly, 1969--and ended probably about 1973 or 1972. As well as I remember\nthat's . . .\n\nKREMER: That's related to when you were in office. Who else opposed you this time?\n\nMASSELL: A couple of Jewish groups got upset because I didn't come and speak to\ntheir group. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=11520.0,11550.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/386","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I just had other commitments and couldn't be everywhere all the\ntime. Some gentile groups got upset when I ruled that we wouldn't have Christmas\ndecorations in city hall anymore, which we had always. Organized labor was the\nbiggest one because they had supported me. Shortly ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=11550.0,11580.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/387","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"after I took office as mayor,\nthey had a major garbage strike and felt that I had not supported them the way\nthey wanted me to. They had bad leadership which was unfortunate for them, for\nthe workers. They ended up right back where I told them they would from the beginning.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=11580.0,11610.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/388","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KREMER: Did you run a second time?\n\nMASSELL: Yes. That's when Maynard [Jackson] got elected when I ran for\nre-election. At that time, the black community had gained the majority of the\npopulation and the voting registration and wanted to elect their own. I can't\nblame them. Jesse Hill, who was ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=11610.0,11640.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/389","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"sort of a top black business leader at that\ntime--and had been one of my major supporters in years past--met with me and\ntold me that he would have to switch to a black even though I had appointed the\nfirst blacks to the [unintelligible] positions in the city's history. Even\nthough I had supported their causes and needs at every turn, they saw ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=11640.0,11670.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/390","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"now where\nthey could elect their own. You really can't blame them. In a previous race,\nwhen I ran for mayor, I had a formidable black opponent, Horace Tate, who had\nalready been elected city-wide to the Board of Education, who was attractive,\narticulate, and had a big following in his employment being head of a teacher's\nunion-type of operation . . . ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=11670.0,11700.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/391","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"organization. He didn't even make the run-off. The\nblack community knew they did not have enough to elect him, so they supported\nme. When they later found they had enough to elect one, they supported him.\n\nKREMER: What happened? Did the population switch during that four years? 1 don't understand.\n\nMASSELL: Yes. It was switching. It was growing constantly--I don't ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=11700.0,11730.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/392","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"remember at\nwhat year when there was 20 percent black population, then 25, then 30, then\n35--every year. It is still increasing every year, the black percentage of\npopulation in Atlanta. Around 1973 when 1 was running for re-election, it had\ngotten up to where it was 55 percent black and that was enough to win.\n\nKREMER: Do you think we will ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=11730.0,11760.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/393","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ever have a white mayor again?\n\nMASSELL: 1 think probably so. What we've seen . . . The first move, starting\nback, a quick political history . . . The first move that I alluded to earlier\nwhen I mentioned the Atlanta Negro Voters League was when they realized that\nthey had power. Prior to that time they weren't allowed to vote ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=11760.0,11790.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/394","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"even. They got\nthe vote and they organized as voters, not as candidates but as voters, a small\nnumber. The percentage was very small but it was a block. They were able to\nconvince the black community that if they stuck together, they would have\ninfluence. They would put out a slate. These are our candidates. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=11790.0,11820.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/395","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Some people\nsay, \"They were selling out.\" They weren't selling out. They were voting for\nthose they thought would do the best for the black community. You can't blame\nthem for doing that. After they had numbers enough where they could actually get\npeople elected . . . In the first instances they were by wards, by districts, so\na district, or a ward at that time would get a black majority and they'd get\nblacks elected. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=11820.0,11850.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/396","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The stage they're going through now, the third stage, is where\nyou have prominent blacks running against each other. We never had that before.\nNow you have Maynard Jackson and Michael Lomax running against each other for mayor.\n\nKREMER: They took care of that. Michael dropped out.\n\nMASSELL: It was only because he couldn't win. It wasn't because the black\nleadership asked him to, I guarantee you ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=11850.0,11880.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/397","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that, which is what it was before.\nBefore, if two blacks wanted to run against each other, the black leadership\nwould get together with those blacks and say, \"You're not going to run. You\nare.\" They would obey and for their own benefit. Even though we had a majority\nrule, you couldn't communicate that to the man on the street. What they were\nable to communicate [was], \"We must stick together.\" I'm saying they graduated\nto a more sophisticated, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=11880.0,11910.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/398","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"healthier stage where they run against each other\n[unintelligible], same as whites have down through history. Same way with John\nLewis and Julian Bond running against each other. You're going to see more and\nmore of this, of prominent blacks running against each other. The point I'm\nmaking, that I'm getting to, is that now you're getting to that stage where the\nblack ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=11910.0,11940.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/399","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"community is more sophisticated. [They] can see the value of the\nindependence that they can exercise in voting for the best person. That's the\ndecision you have to make. If you've got two prominent blacks running against\neach other; you've got to decide not on race, you've got to decide to vote for-\nthe best person. Once you get into that frame of mind, the next stage is going\nto be where indeed they will elect a white if he's the best person. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=11940.0,11970.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/400","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Whether\nthat's 20 years from now or when, I can't pinpoint. I'm of the opinion that's\nthe same way we got whites--and I was very involved in it--back in the 1960's to\nvote for blacks because that black running was the best person. I don't mean we\ngot all the whites, but 10 or 20 percent of the whites, to vote for that black\nwhich was a real breakthrough. I think you'll see that happen. I think there is\na possibility, a probability that you'll see ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=11970.0,12000.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/401","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"some whites . . . We have some\nwhites now elected city-wide on the City Council, in a city that's\noverwhelmingly black, who have black opponents. They have won because they are\nthe best candidate. Blacks did vote for them. City Council is not as significant\nas mayor but we'll reach that point.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=12000.0,12030.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/402","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KREMER: The last election that you ran against Maynard [Jackson], what was that\nelection like? Was it really rough? You lost the black support. You say you\nstepped on lots of people's toes. Did you find that the white community really\nrallied behind you? Is that what happened? Was it a black- white issue?\n\nMASSELL: It was definitely a black-white issue. I got 90 percent of the white\nvote and 10 percent of the black vote. Maynard got 90 percent of the ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=12030.0,12060.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/403","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"black vote\nand 10 percent of the white vote. In my first race I got 90 percent of the black\nvote and only 10 percent of the white vote because the white business community\nopted to support my opponent who was a more conservative individual, Rodney\nCook, and he was not Jewish. I think that played a role in the eyes of the electorate.\n\nKREMER: Was there antisemitism?\n\nMASSELL: A little, but not much. I had a cross burned in my yard. There was some\nbut it was not an issue. I did ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=12060.0,12090.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/404","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"not feel that, other than the subconscious\nphilosophy--more a prejudice--of a non-Jewish white who would opt to go for\nanother non-Jewish white rather than a Jewish white. I'm satisfied that existed\nbut that's not unusual and that's understandable. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=12090.0,12120.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/405","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The same way the Jews voted\nfor the Jews. Ninety percent or better of the Jewish people--you can't trace\nit--voted for the Jewish candidate and will because they feel they have a closer\nrelationship and that that person would represent them better. This is to be\nexpected. In the race between me and Maynard, one thing that happened which was\nunfortunate for me. I don't think it would have ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=12120.0,12150.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/406","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"changed--I'm positive it would\nnot have changed--the outcome of the election. It was unfortunate because it\ntainted what I'd like to think is an otherwise progressive and local philosophy\nand reputation that I have. My campaign staff adopted a slogan that \"Atlanta is\nToo Young to Die.\" Incidentally, this was written by ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=12150.0,12180.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/407","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ralph McGill Jr., the son\nof a Pulitzer Prize, extremely liberal former editor and publisher of the\nAtlanta Constitution. It was approved by Helen Bullard, this person I mentioned\nearlier, the political consultant who ran Ivan Allen's campaigns and Bill\nHartsfield's and was an extremely progressive liberal force in the city. Nobody\nin the room at the time this was mentioned ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=12180.0,12210.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/408","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"hinted that it was a prejudicial or\nanti-black slogan. Had anybody even hinted that it could be taken that way, I\nwould never had agreed to use it. I would never have accepted it. I believe, to\nthis day, you could go to any other city where somebody has not heard that and\nsay, \"Have you heard this term? Do you think that's anti-black. Is that a racist\nstatement? New York's too young to ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=12210.0,12240.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/409","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"die, or any other city?\" The Maynard Jackson\nforces picked it up and said it was racist. The newspapers picked it up and said\nit was racist. First thing you know, even some of my white supporters--I say\nwhite, responsible people--were saying it was racist. It put me in a terribly\nembarrassing position ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=12240.0,12270.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/410","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"because I would never have used anything racist. I, to\nthis day, don't interpret it as being racist. It's just saying, \"I'm the best\nman.\" It's saying, \"This guy ain't going to be able to run this city.\" If you\ncan't say that, you'd better not run for office. If you don't have an ego, and\nif you don't think you're the best, you shouldn't he running. It's not a game.\nIt's a business, to help, to be of public service. It really did bother me. They\nwere very successful, either accidentally ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=12270.0,12300.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/411","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"or by design, in painting this as a\nracist statement. It's interesting because years later--not too many years, two\nor three years later--the Atlanta Journal-Constitution ran big full page\npictures of empty buildings downtown and trash in the streets and had a heading,\n\"Atlanta is dying\" or something like that. They didn't label it racist,\nobviously. They just meant. \"Hey, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=12300.0,12330.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/412","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"you're not taking care of business.\" That was\na sad part of the campaign.\n\nKREMER: When did Atlanta have its big real estate bust? Was it at the end of the 1970's?\n\nMASSELL: That was after I came out of office, right at that time. I can't blame\nthat on Maynard, though. Ivan Allen says, with tongue in cheek, and he's not too\nfar wrong . . . He and I ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=12330.0,12360.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/413","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"worked so hard boosting Atlanta, building Atlanta, and\ngetting everybody excited about the prosperity of Atlanta that we over-sold it.\nIt got too big. The depression really hurt. It brought everybody down. There was\ntoo much building. Ivan had a wall in his office filled with silver shovels like\nthat one I have over there--dedication ground breaking shovels--to show all the\ndifferent developments under way at the time.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=12360.0,12390.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/414","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KREMER: On to Maynard, what significant really happened then? Were you still\ninvolved in politics at all or just an observer?\n\nMASSELL: When?\n\nKREMER: After you went out of office and Maynard came in. It must have been a\ntremendous transition.\n\nMASSELL: It was. In fact, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=12390.0,12420.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/415","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I've remarked to a number of people that I never knew\nwhat pressure I was under until I came out of office and had it taken off my\nshoulders. It's just part of the job. While you're there you're doing it day and\nnight. Let me divert very quickly back to the hippie era. I wanted to mention\nsomething that happened one night. I was in Washington D.C. I came home. We had\na kid shot in Piedmont Park. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=12420.0,12450.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/416","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I was really concerned. It was overflowing with the\nflower children. I sat down on the edge of the bed of my son Steve. Let me think\nhow old he would he. He was about ten years old. I said, \"What am I going to do\nabout this?\" He said, \"Why don't you,\" . . . ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=12450.0,12480.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/417","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I don't remember what he called it,\n\"get mounted patrol.\" That was the beginning of the horse force. That was when\nwe put in mounted horses, mounted police, first city in the country to go back\nto this. New York still had them. All the cities had them originally, a hundred\nyears ago, but everybody had gotten rid of them...\n\nKREMER: This is side two of tape three on February 8, 1993. This is Ray Ann\nKremer ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=12480.0,12510.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/418","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"interviewing Sam Massell.\n\nMASSELL: I was just saying, that was the beginning of the horse force, mounted\npatrol. We had horses donated free of charge. We had men on the police force who\nalready knew how to ride horseback. It was wonderful because they were good for\ncrowd control. They could go in the parks. They didn't have to stay on the\nstreets. They could go over the grounds. It helped a lot and they're still using\nthem very effectively.\n\nKREMER: I have three questions and they're all related to each other. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=12510.0,12540.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/419","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"When you\nwere mayor, there are three things: what was the most controversial thing you\ndid in office, what is the thing you are most proud of, and what is the thing\nyou regret the most?\n\nMASSELL: The most controversial . . .\n\nKREMER: Any ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=12540.0,12570.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/420","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"editorials in the papers . . .\n\nMASSELL: I didn't get many bad editorials.\n\nKREMER: Controversial doesn't mean bad.\n\nMASSELL: The garbage strike was probably the most explosive type horror, the\nmost intense period that I can remember right now. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=12570.0,12600.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/421","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It affected the largest\nnumber of people who were concerned directly with it.\n\nKREMER: How long did the strike go on?\n\nMASSELL: Seems like six weeks.\n\nKREMER: No one had garbage pickup for six weeks?\n\nMASSELL: That 's correct. We handled it beautifully in that the public rallied\nbehind our support. I can just tell you a lot about it and there's probably much\nmore you want to know. First of all, I have to confess ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=12600.0,12630.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/422","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I did not know anything\nabout handling a strike or negotiating with the union. Although I won the\nstrike, in retrospect I'd say I should have called on a labor expert to counsel\nme. When I told the union at the beginning, here's what we can do, ABC, I didn't\nknow you were supposed to say less than you can do. Then they demand more. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=12630.0,12660.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/423","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You\nincrease it a 1ittle bit. They demand a little less. You keep coming to the\nmiddle until you settle it. I said, \"You want more pay, you want more time off,\nyou want more this, here's what we'll do. That's all we can do. Period and\nparagraph.\" They didn't know I didn't know how to negotiate. They thought I was\nkidding, that it was just the first stage and they would negotiate. Seriously,\nthis is exactly what happened. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=12660.0,12690.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/424","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"One of the head men met secretly with me in my\nbreakfast room, Joe Jacobs. He's still living. He's a union man to this day, a\ngood man in Atlanta.\n\nKREMER: Is he Jewish?\n\nMASSELL: Yes, he is. We discussed this. I said, \" I' m sorry, Joe. I didn't know\nI was supposed to start low and come up. I told you the truth. I've been honest.\nI told the public the truth: here's what we can do and that's all we can do.\"\nLet me explain. They had ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=12690.0,12720.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/425","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"told me, too, when they started this, \"It's only going\nto be a three-day walk out. It's just to make a point. We'll negotiate with you\nlater.\" I said, \"Fine.\" It didn't work that way. They had very poor management\nor leadership at the local level with the union. We took away the check-off\nwhich is a very fatal action for a ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=12720.0,12750.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/426","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"government to undertake against a union. It\ndid put them out of business. Check-off means that we would collect the dues.\nThey said it wouldn't kill them, but it was obvious that it would and it did. 1\neven went around to the sanitary collection stations in the mornings and told\nthe men, \"Hey, join the union. Don't worry about it. You can join. We're not\ncollecting the dues.\" In fact, they did away with dues ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=12750.0,12780.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/427","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to make it, because they\nknew they couldn't collect them. I said, \"You ought to all join. It's free. Go\nfor it. Maybe they can help you along the way.\" We weren't fighting the union.\nWe were fighting what we thought were unreasonable demands. The public believed\nus. We even got Avis Rent-A-Car. They had the little metal buttons that folded\nover on a ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=12780.0,12810.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/428","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"shirt pocket that said, \"We try harder.\" We got them to print us some\nof those because they were very inexpensive 1itt1e metal things without a pin on\nthe back, one piece that said. \"I'm an honorary garbage collector for the city.\"\nWe handed those out all over the city and everybody was wearing them proudly.\nHousewives were wearing them. We set up collection points at schools with big\ndumpsters asking ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=12810.0,12840.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/429","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"people to bring their garbage there. People started meeting\nneighbors they had never talked to. It just turned into a very favorable bottom line.\n\nKREMER: What year was that?\n\nMASSELL: ]It was] 1970, I think. It was right after I took office, so it had to\nbe 1970. It was just that first month or two after I took office. The union\nfinally ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=12840.0,12870.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/430","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"backed down and went back to work. They got exactly what I'd offered\nthem from the beginning. In the meantime, they lost all that salary while they\nwere out. One quick anecdote. One Sunday we had prisoners--volunteers from the\ncity stockade who we paid--on trucks to go downtown and pick up garbage in\ndowntown streets. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=12870.0,12900.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/431","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Fearing some violence from threats we'd received from union\norganizers, we had a lot of police downtown, all over the place. This was on a\nSunday. I was very anxious to see how it was going. I normally, throughout my\nterm as mayor, did not drive a car but we kept the mayor's limousine at my\nhouse. The aide would come there in the morning, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=12900.0,12930.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/432","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"leave his car, pick me up, and\ndrive me for the rest of the day. In fact, I had two shifts because I'm a\nworkaholic. I would work at night. He'd drive me home at night, and he'd take\nhis car and we'd swap cars. This Sunday I was very anxious to see how the\ncollection system was going, but I hated to call my driver arid ask him to come\nall the way from his house to my house just to drive me downtown and drive me\nback. I decided that I'd drive down myself. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=12930.0,12960.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/433","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I was driving very quietly and very\nslowly. [I was] going down one street and down another, looking down this way,\nand looking down that way, to see how it was going. I wasn't going probably more\nthan five miles an hour. I bumped into another car because I wasn't looking. I\ntook the po1ice radio that's in the mayor's car and 80 is the signal for the\nidentification of the mayor. I said, \"This is ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=12960.0,12990.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/434","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"80. I've got a problem at the\ncorner of Forsythe Street and Marietta Street, wherever I was.\" All of sudden,\nabout ten police oars came flying over the hill. This poor man who I hit didn't\nknow who I was and didn't know what had happened. He got out and threw his hands\nup and said, \"I didn't do anything. I didn't do anything.\" It was funny at the\ntime. It's funny now, I guess.\n\nKREMER: Tell me what you're most proud of, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=12990.0,13020.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/435","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"if you had one thing on your stone\nabout being mayor.\n\nMASSELL: I guess structuring the program that pulled the MARTA referendum\nthrough. Mass transit. The big business people who had primarily opposed me ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=13020.0,13050.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/436","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"in\nthe earlier election had tried it and failed, so. I guess there was some ego\nboosting there to succeed with a different approach. I designed it with a sharp\npencil in a maverick manner that shocked a lot of people, which involved\nsubsidized fares which had not been ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=13050.0,13080.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/437","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"suggested before. The fare at the time for\nthe public transit which was privately owned was about . . . I think 60 cents\nplus a nickel transfer. I was suggesting that we go to 15 cents, which we did.\nActually, I was suggesting free fare. They compromised it with 15 cents, which\nthey kept for seven years. This was a dramatic campaign to sell this.\n\nKREMER: What was the purpose of doing that? Was that to ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=13080.0,13110.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/438","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"get more people to ride it?\n\nMASSELL: It was several purposes. I guess the main purpose was to pass the\nreferendum. As I was explaining, the referendum had failed before because they\nwere going to pay for the system with ad valorem taxes. I was adamant about not\nfunding it again with ad valorem taxes. I was satisfied the public would not\nvote for it to tax themselves from their real estate. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=13110.0,13140.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/439","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I had to come up with a\nway that the public would vote for it. The public or a large percentage of the\npopulation was of lower income, primarily blacks, but of lower income. The lower\nincome are the people who use public transportation the most. If I could show\nthem that they would benefit by voting yes, then I could win the referendum. I\nwent ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=13140.0,13170.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/440","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"with the black board to school after school after school and showed them\nthat if they would vote themselves another one percent sales tax based on their\naverage income of x dollars a week, and add that one percent onto that . . .\nthen you take off the difference between 15 cents and 60 cents, and the fare . .\n. They were all riding public transportation back and forth to work each day\nwhich by that time was five days a week. I showed ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=13170.0,13200.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/441","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"them where the day after they\nvoted yes--because we were going to buy the existing bus system before we even\nstarted the rail--that they could start putting money in their pocket the next\nday after they voted yes. It wasn't easy. I had one city councilman, alderman,\nHenry Dodson who later became a County Commissioner, a black, who ran around\ntown in a little Volkswagen with a PA [public address] system saying, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=13200.0,13230.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/442","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"\"If they\ncan't make it on 60 cents, how are they going to make it on 15 cents?\" It was\nhard to overcome because I was trying to explain it to a less educated\nconstituency. It wasn't a question about making it. It was going to be\nsubsidized. Just like the parks don't pay their own way, the libraries don't pay\ntheir own way, the schools don't pay their own way, public transportation\nshouldn't pay its own way. I could go on and on about it. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=13230.0,13260.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/443","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The reason that's my\nproudest is because it was the largest public works program in the state's\nhistory, meaning a tremendous amount of employment, meaning great human\nopportunity for the public providing mobility, freeing these people from their\nown neighborhoods, being confined, and getting to ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=13260.0,13290.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/444","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"church, school, parks, and\nwork. It gave opportunities for minorities in the management and operation.\nOverall, I'd say it touched all lives more than anything else.\n\nKREMER: When did they start with the train?\n\nMASSELL: They started right away.\n\nKREMER: That was part of it?\n\nMASSELL: That was part of it. It was all one program.\n\nKREMER: You bought the buses along . . .\n\nMASSELL: We bought the existing buses. We started immediately ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=13290.0,13320.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/445","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and started the\nplans for the construction. I don't remember when we dug the first hole.\n\nKREMER: You got grants, federal grants and things like that. All that was done\nduring your administration.\n\nMASSELL: Right.\n\nKREMER: That certainly is a significant impact on the city.\n\nMASSELL: I went around the country and speaking on it to other cities that put\nit in. At the time, the approach was unique.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=13320.0,13350.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/446","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KREMER: Has anyone done it since?\n\nMASSELL: Yes, a number of cities have.\n\nKREMER: LA [Los Angeles, California]?\n\nMASSELL: Yes.\n\nKREMER: Not many. A lot of spread-out cities are without transportation systems.\nWhat would you do over again if you could do it differently?\n\nMASSELL: The thing I got the most flak over . . .\n\nKREMER: . . . that you regretted the most, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=13350.0,13380.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/447","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"not the most flak, that you were\nsorry about.\n\nMASSELL: That's a good point. I got flak on some things that I didn't care how\nmuch flak. I did what was right. The appointment of a police chief, that turned\nsour. I don't think the appointment ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=13380.0,13410.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/448","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"was a bad appointment but for some reason .\n. . Incidentally. I got recommendations on him . . .\n\nKREMER: Who was it? You regret it so much you can't even remember his name.\n[You] put it out of your mind. How long was he there?\n\nMASSELL: He was there a long time. Maynard had to ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=13410.0,13440.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/449","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"sue him to try to get him out.\n\nKREMER: You couldn't just fire him?\n\nMASSELL: No. Our appointment system at that time--we've got a new charter\nnow--was the police chief was appointed for life on good behavior or something\nlike that. So was the fire chief, personnel director. I think there were several\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=13440.0,13470.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/450","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"positions, supposedly to remove it from politics. I started saying, I got\nrecommendations from the head of the GBI [Georgia Bureau of Investigation], from\nthe head of the Cobb County Public Safety Department which was highly respected,\nJudge Luther Alverson, [and] several top judges. A lot of good law enforcement\npeople ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=13470.0,13500.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/451","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"recommended him.\n\nKREMER: Was he white or black?\n\nMASSELL: White. Because of his independent state, which I mentioned is built-in,\nhe would not take any direction from me. He turned out to be more conservative\nthan anybody ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=13500.0,13530.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/452","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"had believed or at least than I had believed or had been led to\nbelieve. John Inman was his name. He just got very independent. The blacks\nthought that he condoned black brutality. He didn't ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=13530.0,13560.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/453","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"talk this way to me. I'd go\nwith him to meetings in the black community and he sounded . . . He seemed to be\nsincere about wanting to work with everybody, but they didn't feel that that was\nthe case. One controversy led to another. It was just turmoil that I could have\navoided by having appointed somebody else. We interviewed a lot of people. We\noffered the job to somebody else who wouldn't take it because ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=13560.0,13590.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/454","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"of the salary.\nThey said he's having that problem now of the department heads not having high\nenough salaries to attract top people. We offered it to the guy who is . . . he\nwas with the Secret Service and had been an aide to President [Lyndon Baines]\nJohnson, I think. That was probably the one that ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=13590.0,13620.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/455","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"if I had it to do over again, I\nwould have done differently.\n\nKREMER: You came out and you helped Maynard transition as the mayor or you just went.\n\nMASSELL: No, he never asked, but that's alright. It wasn't necessary that he do\nso. I decided after 22 years of elected office that I would not ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=13620.0,13650.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/456","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"continue in\npublic service. I had enjoyed it thoroughly, no bitterness. I was richly\nrewarded, not monetarily but many other ways. I felt good about the achievements\nof my administration and, for that matter, all 22 years of office. I had heard\nall my life, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=13650.0,13680.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/457","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"like everyone else, that once you got politics in your blood you\ncan't get it out. That became a challenge. I happen to be motivated by challenge\nin whatever direction, whether it's business, political or whatever. That's\nprobably the reason that I run so hard on the tennis court. I'm not good but I\nrun hard. I said, \"I'll prove that I'm the exception. I can get it out of my\nblood.\" The way to do ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=13680.0,13710.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/458","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that is to overtly shift gears entirely. That I did.\nWhenever somebody would ask me to speak to a rotary club I'd say, \"Yes. I would\nbe glad to but I'm going to talk about the travel industry because that's what\nI'm in. If you want to ask some questions about politics, yes, I can speak. I'm\nnot going to come give political speeches. I'm not going to attack the\nadministration or in any other way be a participant because I've shifted gears\nentirely.\" ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=13710.0,13740.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/459","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It worked. People have asked me, \"Do you ever miss it?\" There have\nbeen one or two times.\n\nKREMER: What you're doing now is kind of more political.\n\nMASSELL: Yes, it is. It's more political but it's more of a soft involvement.\nThe travel was far removed. I went to the fiftieth anniversary of the National\nLeague of Cities meeting in Houston a few years after I came ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=13740.0,13770.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/460","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"out, as an invited\nguest because I had been president of the National League of Cities. I'll admit\nthat I missed it then. In fact, I left early because I found myself encircled by\nall these friends of mine, mayors, talking about issues and problems. That's\nwhen I missed it. I said, \"This won't do. I'm going home.\" ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=13770.0,13800.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/461","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I miss it when I look\nat a policy. I think government's role is to solve those problems that are just\ntoo big for individuals . . . Recently, when Haiti was exploding with the AIDS\nepidemic, with the country-wide poverty, and with the governmental revolution, I\nsaid, \"There's an opportunity for government. That's where government is needed\nto step ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=13800.0,13830.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/462","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"in and take over something and find a solution.\" I guess one of the\nreasons . . . Going back to why I was proud of MARTA, one of the main reasons\nthat I probably made clear was that I was able to design something and to\nachieve something that was not achievable before. The same way with the\ndevelopment of the Omni Coliseum. Every sports facility in the country has been\nbuilt at a ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=13830.0,13860.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/463","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"deficit, at a loss, where the taxpayers are constantly having to feed\nit. Although I voted for the Atlanta-Fulton [County] Stadium where the baseball\nand football are played, and knew at the time, and said at the time that it\nwould not make money--although they show you all these pro formas that suggest\nit's going to make money with all the beauty pageants and high school games and\nthings that never occur--I felt it was worth it. When it came time to build a\ncoliseum when 1 was in ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=13860.0,13890.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/464","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"office--the Omni--I insisted that it be structured in\nwhat was then a unique manner, that the taxpayer would never be called on for a\ndeficit if they never sold a single ticket. I was able to do this with my real\nestate experience, business experience, and arrogant manner. I just insisted. I\ngot up and walked out of the room twice from friends. Tom Cousins, who had\nsupported ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=13890.0,13920.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/465","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"me and given me money during my campaign, he was the main one to\nbenefit. He owned the property. He owned the Hawks basketball team. He owned the\nFlames I think later, but he had the Hawks then. I said. \"You're either going to\ndo it this way or we're not going to do it at all, to structure in a way that if\nyou never sell a ticket, the public doesn't have to pay.\" It was leased, in\neffect, to Cousins for the principle, interest, maintenance, and management ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=13920.0,13950.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/466","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"of\nthe building. He pledged income from the existing parking decks over the\nrailroad as security. He had to pay the total debt service every month. Things\nlike that that you put together, that's what makes government fulfilling.\n\nKREMER: For 13 years you were in the travel business. You must have done a lot\nof traveling.\n\nMASSELL: Yes.\n\nKREMER: You pretty much stayed out of ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=13950.0,13980.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/467","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"politics?\n\nMASSELL: Yes.\n\nKREMER: Built your business.\n\nMASSELL: I shifted gears.\n\nKREMER: What happened that made you sell your business and do this?\n\nMASSELL: I had just achieved about everything I could in the travel business. I\nhad become president of the Travel Industry Association of Georgia. I was a\ncertified travel counselor which is a major ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=13980.0,14010.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/468","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"academic program. I was advisor to\nthe Bahamas Tourist Board and to the Alamo Rent-a-car Company.\n\nKREMER: Were you advisor to the Bahamas when Bill Schwartz was the ambassador?\n\nMASSELL: Yes. I visited him and his wife there when I was visiting there. I went\nthere often, to the Bahamas. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=14010.0,14040.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/469","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I had conquered that mountain, I guess, and enjoyed\nit. Maybe I was getting a little tired of it, number one, and number two, it\njust happened that this thing fit like a glove. They offered it to me. They made\nit very attractive.\n\nKREMER: Who put it together?\n\nMASSELL: Charlie Loudermilk was the principle mover who designed it, and Jerry\nMcFall is our new chairman who just took office.\n\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=14040.0,14070.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/470","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"KREMER: It was put together when they came to you or were you involved in\nputting it together?\n\nMASSELL: No, I was not involved in putting it together.\n\nKREMER: You still had your business when they came to you?\n\nMASSELL: I had my business. They did not have an office. They were not in\noperation but 13 guys had gotten together and said, \"Let's form this\nassociation. Now we need to go out and find somebody to run it.\" Actually, they\nhad a head hunter that they paid ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=14070.0,14100.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/471","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"$25,000 to go out and find me . . . or $50,000.\nI think they paid $50,000. I can't remember. Korn Ferry was one of the largest\nin the country. They interviewed and talked to a lot of people. One of the funny\nside stories on this . . . to show you I had no interest. It had not even\noccurred to me . . . A young man whose name I don't ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=14100.0,14130.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/472","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"recall--he might he Jewish\ntoo--called me and said that he was interested in getting this job, would I help\nhim, and could he come talk to me about it. I said, \"Sure, come talk to me about\nit but I don't have anything to do with it.\" I was active in the Buckhead\nBusiness Association which is a civic duty. He came to see me and he wanted to\nknow if I would call Charlie Loudermilk or some of the others and recommend him.\nI said, \"I can't do that. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=14130.0,14160.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/473","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I don't know you, so I can't recommend you. I'll be\nglad to sit here and talk with you about what I think they'll be looking for. If\nyou're going for an interview, here's what I would think that they'll be looking\nfor.\" I spelled out the different background needs and everything because I know\nthat much about organization work. He thanked me and went on his way. Well, it\nwasn't until later--I don't remember how much, maybe a month 1ater--that they\ncontacted me. He's sitting somewhere right now thinking what a ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=14160.0,14190.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/474","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"scoundrel I am\nthat either he gave me the idea or else I was planning it all along. It was just\nthe furthest thing from my mind. I was selling dreams, traveling the world, and\nworking without a tie. I didn't wear a necktie unless I went south of Pershing\nPoint. I was enjoying the good life. My wife worked there. All three of our\nchildren at one time or another worked there.\n\nKREMER: After you accepted this position, then you ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=14190.0,14220.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/475","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"sold your agency?\n\nMASSELL: Not immediately after. My wife stayed there and worked for maybe\nanother year, a year and a half or two, then I sold it. She got tired of working\nthere. We had a grandchild. That influenced her. We had bought a townhouse and\nit needed decorating and ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=14220.0,14250.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/476","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"other interests at the time. She was losing interest.\n\nKREMER: Tell me about the Buckhead Coalition. Where do you see it going? What\ndifference has it made so far?\n\nMASSELL: I'm going to give you a copy of our annual report to take with you if\nyou're interested. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=14250.0,14280.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/477","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The Buckhead Coalition has been very successful. It's in its\nfourth year . . . in its fifth year, starting the fifth. It's gone from those 13\noriginal to 77 members. It's got a major study underway for Buckhead at a cost\nof $200,000 of its own funds for a long range plan ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=14280.0,14310.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/478","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to coordinate orderly growth\nin the community. We get accolades from every direction for our involvement and\nservices to individuals, businesses, and groups. We are aggressively marketing\nBuckhead. We're starting this year a program which is being provided, pro bono,\nby one of our members ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=14310.0,14340.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/479","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"who has a big public relations firm. We're going to market\nBuckhead nationally, which I've not done much with. I've done it locally.\n\nKREMER: Market it for what?\n\nMASSELL: As a place to 1ive, as a place to visit, and as a place to work. All\nthree. Our organization is unique ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=14340.0,14370.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/480","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"in that our members not only work here but\nlive here. They're equally as interested in the residential aspect as they are\nwith the commercial areas. They are what is technically called a downtown\nassociation. They have these all over the country. There's one in central\ndowntown called Central Atlanta Partners [CAP] in Atlanta. We belong to a\nnational association of downtown associations, International Downtown\nAssociation, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=14370.0,14400.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/481","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"IDA. Most of them organize downtown associations for the purpose\nof rehabilitating run-down central downtowns. Pretty much like CAP was\norganized. That's not our case. There are others like us that are in areas where\nthe main intent is to protect what they ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=14400.0,14430.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/482","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"have, not to try to rebuild, to nurture\nthe quality of life, and to coordinate an orderly growth. The membership is by\ninvitation. It's limited to CEO's of major firms. It's quite interesting.\nIncidentally, most of those guys are conservative Republicans and they know that\nI'm a liberal Democrat.. I think I'm changing them and they think they're\nchanging me. They are not people who were ever ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=14430.0,14460.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/483","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"political supporters in any of my\ncampaigns. In fact. I guess if I searched the records. I'd find they were\nopponents. I don't feel I have a problem working with them or for them. If I\never do, I'll quit. In the meantime I found that I don't have to compromise my\nprincipals. So far, there has not been any hint of any problem in that\ndirection. They really impress me with ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=14460.0,14490.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/484","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"what I construe to be a very genuine\ndesire to be good citizens. Maybe it's more interesting to me because I have not\nbeen this close to the power structure before. I'm seeing it first-hand. I'm\nseeing their sensitivity to their fellow man. I think it's very commendable. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=14490.0,14520.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/485","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The\ndues are very high. It's $5,000 per year per person, so they're very serious\nabout what they're trying to do.\n\nKREMER: What are the goals?\n\nMASSELL: We work in three directions. The above-all goal is that of nurturing\nthe quality of life and coordinating the orderly growth of the community. Part\nof that is marketing. We run full page ads in several magazines. I had somebody\ncall me the other ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=14520.0,14550.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/486","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"day who saw our ad in Seasons Magazine down in Naples, Florida\nat a Ritz Hotel and called me for more information about Buckhead. So, some\nmarketing the community as a place to visit and as a place to work, live, and\nplay . . . We have this planning process which would be a necessary element to\ncoordinate ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=14550.0,14580.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/487","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the growth in an orderly way. Not only do we have this major--what we\ncall--Buckhead Blueprint by EDAW out of San Francisco for which we are paying\n$200,000 that's being done now. We have another study for an equal price,\n$200,000, that we got from the federal government being done by the Atlanta\nRegional Commission for us on a people mover study. We're working with the\nBuckhead Business Association with a study being done by Emory University\nBusiness School on the ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=14580.0,14610.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/488","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"retail in Buckhead. Studies of planning is a major part\nof it. In fact, we have a full-time planner on our staff who's a certified\nprofessional planner. The third area is one like a little city hall, I guess. I\nsmile when I say that. We don't have any power. We don't pretend 1ike we're a\ncity hall but we take any and every call we get. If somebody contacts us because\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=14610.0,14640.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/489","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the noise in a night club is keeping them awake at night, we contact the night\nclub and use our influence to try to persuade them to reduce the noise. If that\ndoesn't work, we'll go to the police department and see if an enforcement of\ncertain regulations is already on the books. If that doesn't work, we'll go to\nCity Council and see about getting new ordinances adopted that would control an\nadverse condition. You'll find in the annual report a letter from a lady who\n1ives in ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=14640.0,14670.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/490","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"one of the public housing projects which we do have in Buckhead, a lot\nof people don't realize that--a high-rise on Piedmont [Road[ near Habersham\n[Road]-- thanking us profusely for getting her dumpster cleaned up. It was\noverf1owing with trash.\n\nKREMER: Piedmont and Habersham?\n\nMASSELL: Right on the corner of Piedmont and Habersham. It's a high-rise public\nhousing project.\n\nKREMER: It has balconies?\n\nMASSELL: I don't know. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=14670.0,14700.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/491","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Not the one that's built on Habersham but the one that's\nfacing, the high rise on Piedmont. That may be the one you're talking about.\nThere's a mid-rise on Habersham. There are three others: one on Sidney Marcus\nBoulevard across from Broadview [Plaza], Lindbergh Center, and one on Peachtree\nnear Peachtree Creek. We take these individual requests. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=14700.0,14730.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/492","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We're very active, very busy.\n\nKREMER: Anything pertinent, anything else about the Buckhead Coalition?\n\nMASSELL: No, except I want to make it clear, this is a good segue for your next\nquestion. We feel very strongly, although I spend full time, day and night,\nincluding weekends, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=14730.0,14760.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/493","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"working on Buckhead's benefit . . . We feel very strongly\nthat we must also have a very strong city overall in that Buckhead won't survive\nwithout the city being strong. I speak on this subject constantly. I'm going\ntomorrow morning to the Ponce de Leon task force, Ponce de Leon group, to tell\nthem about our Buckhead Coalition and how it works. I've spoken to the south\nside ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=14760.0,14790.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/494","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"public officials about it. I've spoken to almost every section of the city\nand encouraged them to create Buckhead Coalitions in their quadrants as well,\nregardless of what name is given. This is very important. Our members . . .\n\nKREMER: Could they possibly get the funding we get in the south quadrant?\n\nMASSELL: Not to the same degree but if they bring together . . . There's some\npowerful people down there. There's some influential people. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=14790.0,14820.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/495","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"There's some\nwealthy people. There's some successful people in that part of town. No, they\nmay not get 77 but we never expected to have 100. I didn't know this but I was\nlater told that they never expected to have more than 50 here. Maybe I've been\npushing too hard. Not that we have membership campaigns or anything, but I\nprovide suggested names to the membership committee in which they select people\nthey wish to ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=14820.0,14850.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/496","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"invite. Yes, they could have similar structures--similar effect--if\nthey want to get together and pitch in some money. I think it needs a staff. It\nneeds somebody who's dedicated to it.\n\nKREMER: Where do you see Atlanta going in the year 2000, which isn't too far\naway? We're only talking about in seven years. Further into the next century?\n\nMASSELL: Of course, you can ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=14850.0,14880.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/497","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"talk about this all day. You'd have to break it\ndown. If 1 were to give it a summary I'd say more of the same. That's not too\noptimistic. That's not too bright a picture because we've had a lot of problems\n","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=14880.0,14910.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/498","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"that I think have grown and will continue to grow. I don't think they're\ninsurmountable. I don't think that Atlanta's going to go down the tube or\nanything. There's a great deal of ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=14910.0,14940.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/499","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"dissatisfaction with the way the city is\nmoving by a lot of those who are the movers and shakers, as well as the man on\nthe street. I think there's more negativism today than I've ever seen.\n\nKREMER: Negative about what?\n\nMASSELL: Even about the Olympics, the greatest thing that's ever ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=14940.0,14970.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/500","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"happened to us\nprobably as far as one event, one action to be here and be gone. Ninety percent\nof what you read in the paper or what you hear at luncheons is negative about\neven the Olympics. That's just the tip of the iceberg. The politics, the\npoliticians . . . I've never seen such a division as we have in the ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=14970.0,15000.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/501","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"City\nCouncil, where there's no apparent concern on the part of the council people to\neven correct this. I stopped and chatted with one of the council members not\nlong ago and said, \"Look, can we help? Can the business people get in there,\nmediate or something? Is there a way ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=15000.0,15030.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/502","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"to get a third party in there to bring you\nall together?\" In so many words he said, \"We don't care.\" Each side is happy\nwith its own little whatever you want to call it.\n\nKREMER: They don't have a perspective for the whole city.\n\nMASSELL: There's not a concern for the whole city. It's very disappointing.\nYou've got that going on. You've got ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=15030.0,15060.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/503","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"negative index after negative index.\nPopulation's going down.\n\nKREMER: In the city or in the suburbs?\n\nMASSELL: No, in the city. I'm talking about the city limits. I'm not just\ntalking about the city limits. To talk about metropolitan Atlanta, that's an\nentirely different picture. I thought you were talking about the city limits.\n\nKREMER: No, I am talking about the city.\n\nMASSELL: In the city limits, the population is decreasing [and] the\nproportionate income level is decreasing. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=15060.0,15090.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/504","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"By proportionate, I mean adjusted to\ninflation, meaning that we're getting more lower income and less higher income.\nThe pollution is increasing. You can just, by every index, [see] everything is\ngetting worse instead of better. You don't see . . .\n\nKREMER: . . . the things that we depend on our government to handle.\n\nMASSELL: Not always ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=15090.0,15120.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/505","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"government. I think the leadership in a number of areas\nhas--I won't say disappeared-- dissipated to some degree. When we look back to\nAtlanta's past and try to find the formula for its success, more often than\nanything else we point to the leadership, not just the political leadership but\nreligions leadership, ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=15120.0,15150.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/506","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"academic leadership. Even in the academic community we've\ngot a president of one institution that's trying to he drummed out of office and\neverywhere you turn there's turmoil.\n\nKREMER: Is that so different than it's always been though?\n\nMASSELL: Yes, when we had. . . the leaders of this city, the young Turks . . .\nInteresting to me is that back in the civil ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=15150.0,15180.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/507","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"rights crisis I watched television\nof events in Birmingham. One of the stark contrasts to what was happening in\nAtlanta was that everybody I saw in positions of leadership or responsibility or\nas spokespeople were old guys. They weren't the young vibrant leadership that we\nhad in Atlanta: the Tom Cousins, the John Portmans, and ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=15180.0,15210.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/508","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the Jim Cushmans. I\ncould go down and list all these young guys who really helped me run this city.\n\nKREMER: Are you saying you don't see those young guys here now?\n\nMASSELL: Yes, I don't see them anywhere like we had then. The media is playing a\ngame with us now. They're having more fun than they've ever had but they don't\nhave the Ralph McGills and the Gene Pattersons.\n\nKREMER: We have ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=15210.0,15240.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/509","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ted Turner who is broadcasting Atlanta all over the world.\n\nMASSELL: He' s broadcasting Atlanta all over the world but he's also saying that\nwe need a new ten commandments, that the old one's outdated and that . . . What\nare some of the other crazy things that he says? Yes, he'd made millions and\nbillions of dollars. He's definitely done a 1ot for Atlanta as far as just\nhaving a baseball team. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=15240.0,15270.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/510","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Those are uppers, there's no doubt about it. The general\nsentiment, the letters to the editor, the people that you talk to on the street,\nthere's more negative than I've ever seen.\n\nKREMER: Do you think that's just in general in this country right now or are you\nsaying Atlanta's different than the rest of the country?\n\nMASSELL: I'm not qualified to answer that. I know what you're saying and you may\nhave an excellent point but ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=15270.0,15300.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/511","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I don't know. I'rn not that close to it anymore like\nwhen I was in politics. I could give you the pulse of the rest of the country,\nmaybe. It's interesting.\n\nKREMER: Do you see anything that's going to change that right now?\n\nMASSELL: Crisis brings about reform. ","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=15300.0,15330.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/transcript/23370/annotation/512","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That's pretty bad to say that we've got to\nwait until it really gets worse before it gets better.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=15330.0,15360.0"}]},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/index/47691","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Massell, Sam [Index]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/index/47691/annotation/513","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Family background and early life","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=31.0,1897.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/index/47691/annotation/514","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"My father [Sam A. Massell Sr.] was born here in Atlanta [Georgia] but his father [Raphael \"Ralph\" Massell] had came here from New York...","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=31.0,1897.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/index/47691/annotation/515","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Atlanta (Ga.)","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Education","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Genealogy","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jewish life","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Migration","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"New York (Ny.)","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Public schools","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=31.0,1897.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/index/47691/annotation/516","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ballyhoo","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=1897.0,2560.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/index/47691/annotation/517","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The one in Atlanta was called the Ballyhoo Club...","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=1897.0,2560.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/index/47691/annotation/518","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Alfred Uhry","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Atlanta (Ga.)","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Ballyhoo","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Cotillian club","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jewish social club","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Last Night of Ballyhoo","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=1897.0,2560.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/index/47691/annotation/519","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"First run for political office","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=2560.0,3658.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/index/47691/annotation/520","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"When I ran for my first political office which was the City Council of Mountain Park...","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=2560.0,3658.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/index/47691/annotation/521","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"antisemitism","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Atlanta (Ga.)","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jewish politicians","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mountain Park","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=2560.0,3658.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/index/47691/annotation/522","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Early professional life","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=3658.0,4416.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/index/47691/annotation/523","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I went to work in my dad's law office. For a while I was working in the daytime and going to two night schools.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=3658.0,4416.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/index/47691/annotation/524","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Atlanta (Ga.)","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Atlanta Law School","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Georgia State University","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jewish attorney","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Real Estate","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=3658.0,4416.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/index/47691/annotation/525","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Meeting Doris Middlebrooks","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=4416.0,5521.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/index/47691/annotation/526","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"He and I went out that night and went to a little night club and at the facing table was Doris, my-bride-to-be.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=4416.0,5521.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/index/47691/annotation/527","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Atlanta (Ga.)","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Courtship","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dating","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Interfaith marriage","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=4416.0,5521.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/index/47691/annotation/528","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Massell family impact on Atlanta","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=5521.0,6324.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/index/47691/annotation/529","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"We've been fortunate to have developers who had self-confidence and creativity that helped provide brick and mortar for the growth of the community. If you don't have the space, people don't come. The Massells were very involved in that...","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=5521.0,6324.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/index/47691/annotation/530","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Atlanta (Ga.)","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Builders","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Development business","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"One Man Boom","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Real estate","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=5521.0,6324.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/index/47691/annotation/531","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Inspiration for political career","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=6324.0,7011.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/index/47691/annotation/532","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Actually, my father loved politics. [He] encouraged me to be involved in civic and service work, and the community...","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=6324.0,7011.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/index/47691/annotation/533","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Antisemitism","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Atlanta (Ga.)","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Atlanta Democrat","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jewish politician","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Political office","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Politics","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=6324.0,7011.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/index/47691/annotation/534","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Winning public office","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=7011.0,9005.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/index/47691/annotation/535","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I saw this in the paper . . . Again, opportunity was knocking. I said, \"I'll run.\"","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=7011.0,9005.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/index/47691/annotation/536","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Atlanta (Ga.)","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Executive Committee","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jewish politician","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Public office","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Public servant","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=7011.0,9005.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/index/47691/annotation/537","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The City Too Busy To Hate","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=9005.0,9747.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/index/47691/annotation/538","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That was Bill Hartsfield's slogan. I was willing to work out things if I could get people to vote what I considered to be the right way.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=9005.0,9747.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/index/47691/annotation/539","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Atlanta (Ga.)","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Civil Rights Movement","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Martin Luther King, Jr.","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"NAACP","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=9005.0,9747.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/index/47691/annotation/540","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Serving as Vice-Mayor of Atlanta","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=9747.0,10563.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/index/47691/annotation/541","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"First of all, did I tell you how I was {02:42:30} drawn into the vice-mayor's contest?","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=9747.0,10563.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/index/47691/annotation/542","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Atlanta (Ga.)","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"City government","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jewish politician","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=9747.0,10563.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/index/47691/annotation/543","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Serving as Mayor of Atlanta","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=10563.0,11617.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/index/47691/annotation/544","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"When I became mayor, incidentally, I mentioned appointing Andy Young as chairman...","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=10563.0,11617.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/index/47691/annotation/545","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Abe Goldstein","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Andrew Young","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Atlanta (Ga.)","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Civil Rights Movement","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jewish politician","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Marvin Goldstein","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Prior Tire","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=10563.0,11617.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/index/47691/annotation/546","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Losing re-election","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=11617.0,13033.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/index/47691/annotation/547","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That's when Maynard [Jackson] got elected when I ran for re-election...","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=11617.0,13033.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/index/47691/annotation/548","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Atlanta (Ga.)","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Black-Jewish relations","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Horace Tate","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jessie Hill","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jewish politician","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Maynard Jackson","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=11617.0,13033.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/index/47691/annotation/549","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Proudest accomplishment as Mayor","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=13033.0,14281.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/index/47691/annotation/550","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I guess structuring the program that pulled the MARTA referendum through. Mass transit...","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=13033.0,14281.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/index/47691/annotation/551","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Atlanta (Ga.)","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Jewish politician","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"MARTA","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mass transit","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Metra Atlanta Rapid Transit Authority","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Public transportation","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=13033.0,14281.0"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/index/47691/annotation/552","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Buckhead Coalition","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Title"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=14281.0,15336.7249"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/index/47691/annotation/553","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The Buckhead Coalition has been very successful. It's in its fourth year . . .","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Partial Transcript"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=14281.0,15336.7249"},{"id":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569/index/47691/annotation/554","type":"Annotation","motivation":"supplementing","body":[{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Atlanta (Ga.)","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Buckhead Coalition","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}},{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Real Estate","format":"text/plain","label":{"en":["Keywords"]}}],"target":"https://thebreman.aviaryplatform.com/collections/994/collection_resources/36526/file/105569#t=14281.0,15336.7249"}]}]}]}